Circle Bases at Warhammer World (Lizardmen)

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**Paradigm**

That lizardmen army on rounds just looks so much better in my eyes, to the point where I'm actually considering starting a small skirmish LM force (for 9th or a LotR mod). The Troglodon and Bastillodon are just beautiful on the oval bases. As Kanlunwen said, they have so much more room to 'breathe' on these bases!

Official? Possibly not. Compulsory for 9th? Unlikely. Looks a million times better? Oh yeah!

**Paradigm**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The other problem being that changes in base size in WHFB are a big deal, unlike 40k where for the most part it doesn't matter. Unless they change the rules so that units are abstracted to amorphous masses rather than collections of invidual troops so that the models are simply aesthetic and their presence or absence doesn't actually affect the game.

I think this would be the best solution quire honestly. Either go KoW route where the whole unit is one element, or the historical/WotR route where you build units from smaller, multi-based elements. Not only does this solve a lot of ranking issues, and minimise the need for stopping to make sure everyone is lined up perfectly/check model-by-model who is in combat, but it opens up a lot more aesthetic options, so people like you can have your neat regiments and people like me can have our looser formations on round bases and we can both be happy!

If we both have, say, 4 elements of equal footprint in a unit, then it doesn't matter whether your guys line up perfectly or that mine are based 3-to-a-base rather than 5, and there are only a few things to check to determine who is in range or in combat ect.

The reason I am doubting GW will take this route, though, is that by basing the system on elements, you can technically get away with less minis per unit space, whereas right now, if you want a block of 40 minis you need 40, and you're out of luck if you have 38 or 39.

**Paradigm**

Haight wrote:
Latest rumors i've been hearing is that either square or circle bases will be feasible for play. To what degree (as in, design wise, full mutability between the two, or "Technically yes everythign can be on square, but if you're on square you can't do XYZ, whereas circle can do all that square can + XYZ" or something along those lines remains to be seen).

What i'm really interested in is there is full mutability in bases, how is distance measuring going to be handled, if not from base (stands to reason that in various instances with various bases, a square base or a circle base would be advantageous if measurements happen base to base).

I am wondering if they are going to move to, for the larger scale game, a "representative" system. I.e. - you have a movement tray, and its populated by models, but the "tray size" defines the number of attacks, etc, by the rules.... or something along those kind of lines. Not sure how it works in other games, but i know it exists - essentially the # of models in the unit actually on the table isn't representative of what the unit itself can actually do / output, etc.

Anyone know how this works in games like KoW, etc, that have representative sized units rather than precise sized units ? I know of the design concept, but have never actually played a game where it's been employed.

Were this such system used, it would stand to reason then that your base size truly doesn't matter if there's a macro-sized tray / holder / base etc., that your micro based models sit on, and this is the basis of measurement and other factors.

Or it could be something unique, who knows. Sorta thinking out loud a bit.

In KoW, the template of the unit (the amount of space it would take up with ranked minis on proper square bases) matters, the number/position of minis within that is entirely irrelevant. For example, I play it with round-based LotR minis in loose formation, and for a unit of '20' models that should be on 20mm bases (so a 100x80mm tray) I'll typically just arrange 8-12 minis in an aesthetically pleasing formation, with no effect on gameplay.

As for WFB, I'd love to see the mass battle variant take on a similar, unit based system. Individual models/profiles within units at this scope of game just gets clunky for no real gain.. Set stats per element (whether that's a KoW style full regiment or a WotR style subdivision of a regiment) would be a huge leap forward, and the only thing that might get me to consider it over KoW.

For the rumoured skirmish variant, I can see the circle/square issue being resolved by nothing more than 'use whatever you prefer'. They're already taking this approach in 40k, where 32 and 25mm bases are basically interchangeable, and frankly, I can't see it causing an issue in either system. As long as measuring sill goes edge to edge, the distances between bases will be the same regardless of base size, and any advantage you could somehow gain would be just as much a disadvantage elsewhere.

**Paradigm**

Ah, yeah, I can see how it might cause (tiny) problems with area-based interacts. I was basing (pun not intended

) my assumptions on a LotR style game, where every mini is an individual and area effects are very rare, so an 'extra distance' gained/lost on your turn would be the opposite in the enemy turn.

Eg: if charge range is 15cm, and being on a square base keeps me 2-3mm safe from being charged in the enemy turn (whereas if I used a round base they could get me), then I'm just as far out of charge range come my turn. In that situation, neither side is gaining or losing anything that the other doesn't.

**Paradigm**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Paradigm wrote:
Ah, yeah, I can see how it might cause (tiny) problems with area-based interacts. I was basing (pun not intended ) my assumptions on a LotR style game, where every mini is an individual and area effects are very rare, so an 'extra distance' gained/lost on your turn would be the opposite in the enemy turn.

Eg: if charge range is 15cm, and being on a square base keeps me 2-3mm safe from being charged in the enemy turn (whereas if I used a round base they could get me), then I'm just as far out of charge range come my turn. In that situation, neither side is gaining or losing anything that the other doesn't.
Base size has no bearing on ranges as ranges are measured from the edge of the base. It's all about frontage and area of effect. A powerful CC unit is even more powerful if it's on 20mm bases rather than 25mm bases because it can get even more models in combat. A 5 wide unit of 20mm models can wheel through a larger angle than a 5 wide unit on a 25mm base. A hard to shift unit is better off on larger bases because it covers a larger area of the table. Base size is much more important in WHFB than it is even in 40 (where the positives tend to trade off the negatives for most units).

Yeah, like I say, I'm talking about the (hypothetical) skirmish variant where frontage/wheeling/area likely won't matter much, if at all. If the bases are going to be square and round, though, the mass battle version needs to either go the element route or go home.