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In terms of a rules standpoint would it be unfair for Orks to go from a 6+ save that gets denied by everything, to a 6+ FNP and no save? From a fluff standpoint it always seemed that they survive blows from their sheer resilience not their makeshift armor. Also as a balance point for crunch when they are upgraded to 'ard boyz they lose the FNP so as to not make them too close to SM in terms of save. How would it affect the game and what do you guys think?

Please don't answer without your reasoning on the matter given.(ie don't just be like noooo no way thats not good just because)
Please explain! Also thanks for any responses guys!

I think losing it for upgrading to 'eavy armor is a bit counterintuitive. Fluffwise it wouldn't make sense for their resilience to go away just for having armor.

No, make it a free 5++, give up Obsec and call it a an Orkirion Detachment.

In alseriousnes it should cost something and does render Cybork Bodies moot. It'd be worth 1pt per Boy though.

Ork balance and feel needs a softer touch.

I feel like the T4 represents Ork toughness good enough for now. The 6+ FNP just involves more tedious rolling and FNP along with its other equivalents I find have already become too prevalent throughout the armies in 40K to represent resilience. You have to understand that taking wounds can also abstractly mean being taken out of action, so the Ork who takes a wound and goes down may not technically be dead so much as struggling to keep his head intact after a bolter round pulped a good amount into bits.

The presence of Painboyz already provides a good source of FNP and it fits IMO that Orks go down in a torrent of firepower as that's generally how get taken down anyways.

I voted option #3 even though I play SM

 Grimskul wrote:
I feel like the T4 represents Ork toughness good enough for now. The 6+ FNP just involves more tedious rolling

True, one good thing about 6+ armor for gameplay is that you usually don't have to roll it because of ap5 shooting. If units get 6++ it should be a minority in the army and on expensive models. Otherwise it should be a better save, because the amount of models saved by rolling all the 6+ saves isn't worth adding more time to thing saves. This is only partially negated by removing the armor save.

I think the answer is the opposite though, orks should be more valuable by getting more access to bs3 shooting sometimes and should make the time spent on dice rolling more effective by getting 5+ fnp and no armor save.


and FNP along with its other equivalents I find have already become too prevalent throughout the armies in 40K to represent resilience. You have to understand that taking wounds can also abstractly mean being taken out of action, so the Ork who takes a wound and goes down may not technically be dead so much as struggling to keep his head intact after a bolter round pulped a good amount into bits.

The presence of Painboyz already provides a good source of FNP and it fits IMO that Orks go down in a torrent of firepower as that's generally how get taken down anyways.

I think medics giving fnp to entire units is weird and a little droppable.

I think giving them a 6+FNP would help a little for footsloggers who just get blasted to shreds.

I voted no, only because I think that it'd be a better idea on Nobz and Ard' Boyz, the ones which are supposed to be tougher than the rest, the role of Painboyz could be to buff this resilience to a 5+ maybe?

Boyz being Toughness 4 while not great I feel like it's a reasonably accurate way to represent them, not as squishy as an average human, not as tough as Living Metal for example.

After voting "No", I spent some extra time thinking about it and changed my mind. So take one from "Too good for the cheap boy" and put it in the "Yes" column.

No I wouldn't give it to them in that way. It appears that this fnp feature also represents the reincarnation protocols of the Necrons (the thing that made them keep standing back up). So an Ork who made his fnp thanks to a painboy nearby is really the painboy reaching down and stapling the Orks head back on or something similarly grisly. As the fluff says an Ork can keep going for a bit longer when dealt a death blow, if a painboy is nearby he can get that boy fully back into the fight (which in this instance is represented by the painboy needing to be in the same unit as that Ork). What I would like to see is a rephrasing of the cybork upgrade so that it increases fnp by 1 so that if alone it's a fnp (6+) but will stack with a painboy's fnp (5+) to make a total of (4+) for that specific model.

I agree with Prowler, and I often assume some things that in reality no one actually specifies. That's how I'd like it to work.

Here's an idea. Orks are not removed from play until the end of current turn if they are killed.(unless they are killed by D weapons, instant death rule or weapons with strength double their toughness or attacks that remove models from play) Grots do not get this, Only Ork based models.

Example - using a single wound model:
Enemy shoots on their turn. The Ork takes his wound, but instead of dying and being taken off the table he gets a marker placed beside him.
He's now living on is sheer Ork will power(latent psychic rage) to kill something before he dies.
He can still fight in the assault phase but at initiative 1.
If he gets wounded in overwatch he dies
If he takes a wound in close combat he is dead.
If wounds spill on him he is dead
If neither happens he gets to attack at initiative 1 then he dies.

Orks turn - Occurs as per usual turns do. If the Ork assaults and:
If he takes a wound in overwatch he still gets to assault but at initiative 1
If he takes another wound at a higher initiative step in close combat he is dead
If wounds spill on him he is dead.
If neither happens he gets to attack at initiative 1 then he dies.

If he gets past overwatch unscathed he attacks at his normal initiative step

If he gets killed at the same initiative step he still attacks and dies as normal
If he gets killed at a higher initiative step he dies as normal
If he gets killed at a lower initiative step he dies as normal

This gives them unique flava and definately makes them "da 'ardest an tuffest buncha gitz dere is. "

I never heard of resilience being a factor, especially with all the D, low ap, high strength weapons. FNP for ork boys would not change anything significantly, they would still be plenty squishy.

I do miss the old days where I would take Mad Dok and max out on ard-cyborge boys, super expensive yet fun, and even that did not break the meta.

It would obviously require a slight point increase (only 1 or 2, we still want them cheap as chips), but I would say it certainly sounds right for the fluff of them being half fungus.

When do you start allocating the 'second wound' to these half dead Orks?

It seems to be that suddenly Orks are effectively 2W models if you use something like this. A little tough for my liking

 Dakkamite wrote:
When do you start allocating the 'second wound' to these half dead Orks?

It seems to be that suddenly Orks are effectively 2W models if you use something like this. A little tough for my liking

There is no second wound to allocate. Basically the model has 1 wound but models are not removed from the table until the end of the turn they were wounded in. Multi Wound models would lose wounds normally until the last wound is lost then this system would kick in.

So if they're wounded in shooting they don't die until the end of the turn and become initiative 1. All you'd do is place a marker on that model so you know the model is living on borrowed time. (so yes there is slight amount of bookkeeping - but wouldn't it be worth it?)
If the marked model is wounded again in shooting then they die right away.

If the marked model is wounded in overwatch they die right away
If they are wounded in combat at a higher initiative they die right away.
If wounds spill on him at a higher initiative they die right away.
If close combat happens he gets to attack at initiative 1 then he dies.
If close combat doesn't happen he dies at the end of the assault phase.

If he gets past shooting and overwatch unscathed he attacks at his normal initiative step
If he gets killed at the same initiative step he still attacks and dies as normal
If he gets killed at a higher initiative step he dies as normal
If he gets killed at a lower initiative step he dies as normal

I think orks should be compared against the baseline of IG, which are trained, tough, skilled humans.

as such they are tougher than a human.

I think cybork should give a 6+ FnP save, or +1 to FnP saves, whichever results in a better FnP. IE painboy+cybork = 4+FnP.