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Hey guys,

I have a game comming up where my opponent and I are bringing our cheesiest lists to the table. Just total beardy cheese at its best! The only rule we have is it has to be a bound army. So no unbound craziness.

What Im having difficulty with is fitting everything in. I have the ghost warrior Formation, with a wraith seer, but if I put the wraith seer into the list, then I need to put troops into the list. Arg! So this is what I got so far. Help me out peeps. Oh and also my opponent is playing a Nurgle FMC summoning list with tzeentch troops.

--------------------------------------------
Wraith host Formation (1435)

1 Spirit Seer
1 Wraithknight
1 Wraithlord w/ 2 brightlances, 2 flamers, ghost glave
5 wraithguard, wave serpent w/ scatter laser
5 wraithblade, wave serpent w/ scatter laser
10 wraithguard

Skyrunner Seer Council (405)

1 Farseer w/ singing spear, spirit stone of anth
1 Farseer w/ singing spear
3 Warlock w. singing spear

Total: 1840
-------------------------------------------------------
Thats the first list. I like the mobility with wave serpents, but theres no air coverage and Im not sure about the seer Council. I feel like theyre going to be easy prey.

This is my second list.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Wraith Host (1175)

1 Spiritseer w/ spirit stone
5 Wraithblade w/ Axe and shield
5 Wraithguard
10 Wraithguard
1 Wraithknight
1 Wraith lord w/ 2 brightlances, 2 flamer, ghost glave

Allied Detachment (675)

1 Wraithseer w/ D-Cannon
10 Guardians w/ scatterlaser support weapon
1 Hemlock Wraith fighter
1 Wraithlord w/ 1 brightlance, 1 scatterlaser, 2 flamer, 1 ghostglave

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

What I dig about this list is the air coverage, the guided wraithsight would be awesome since the wraithseer also has his bubble of awesome. I get to use all my wraith units which is also a huge plus! The wraithunits are slow moving and foot slogging which is kind of a bummer but I guess its a trade off. I was also thinking that the hemlock could make leadership based spells more effective. Also Heavy D scythe. I donno, let me know what you think - Im pretty new to the game so Im a bit of a noob. Help me out!

Cheers


EDIT: Also, I just realized the second list may not be legal because of the HQ Requirement, (This unit may not be used to fulfill the mandatory HQ slot on a Force Org chart) I was making my spiritseer the warlord of the army, but Im not sure if that lets me use the allied list in this way?

I think the second may not be legal as i seem to remember a rule that you can't ally with your own faction - not sure though, someone else might confirm.

Otherwise the lists look fun, the question is by 'cheesy' are you trying to build a very competitive list or a very annoying one for the opponent? If it's the former then a CAD may be the way to go

CAD? what's that? I'm a Noob.

Edit: duh, never mind I figured it out, combined arms detachment

Strictly, both lists are illegal.

List one, the seer council requires a minimum of 5 warlocks.

List two, an allied detachment cannot be from the same faction as your primary detachment. Your primary detachment is whichever one contains your warlord. Finally, an allied detachment cannot be your primary.

Considering your desire for cheese, your Wraithguard are all sub optimal. Wraith cannons and D scythes are the way to go. Blades are very poor. And they need transports. Otherwise they will die, quickly. 2x 5 scythes and 1x 5 cannons is probably most optimal and in serpents at that. Putting the spiritseer in the cannon squad.

Pure dirt? I'd be looking at a Windrider host. 1x farseer, 1x warlock, 1x dual cannon vyper, 3x3 scatter bikes. Then the wraith host formation with serpents and you've got a fast protected force, that once deployed gets a 6" move, 6" run, and can then fire.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:


Pure dirt? I'd be looking at a Windrider host. 1x farseer, 1x warlock, 1x dual cannon vyper, 3x3 scatter bikes. Then the wraith host formation with serpents and you've got a fast protected force, that once deployed gets a 6" move, 6" run, and can then fire.

Yeah, that's the gravy list for a Wraithguard based cheese.

For extra sauce, take Eldrad, and you can scout a bunch of wraithguard. To really take it up a notch get Baharroth and Eldrad with a wraithguard blob. Roll on Santic, and hope for gate of infinity. Enjoy deep strikinging without scatter every turn as the wraithguard nuke a thing per turn. Stuck in combat? H&R out with Baharroth!

Wow! Great suggestions back to cheese drawing board, I'll be back

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Wraith cannons and D scythes are the way to go. Blades are very poor.

probably shouldn't mention that to my wraithblade squad today. Vs IG gunline, a unit of 5 ended up losing 3 models, but chewed through 5 units (sqd, 2 command sqds and 2 mortar sqds). The 4+ invuln was golden, shaking off las and battlecannon alike.

It happens, but it's rare. Very rare. They almost never make their points back. The fact that they can normally never make combat units turn three is one of their biggest issues. And a 4++ is only a 50% chance of a save. That's not great odds. It's better than nothing, but not great.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
It happens, but it's rare. Very rare. They almost never make their points back. The fact that they can normally never make combat units turn three is one of their biggest issues. And a 4++ is only a 50% chance of a save. That's not great odds. It's better than nothing, but not great.

but that's if everything is shooting at it....and not the serpents delivering regular guard, or the knight, or the solitaire, the tasty wraithlord...

bullyboy wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
It happens, but it's rare. Very rare. They almost never make their points back. The fact that they can normally never make combat units turn three is one of their biggest issues. And a 4++ is only a 50% chance of a save. That's not great odds. It's better than nothing, but not great.

but that's if everything is shooting at it....and not the serpents delivering regular guard, or the knight, or the solitaire, the tasty wraithlord...

Then it sounds like it could have been a case of poor target priority by your opponent. Not trying to downplay your strategy, but I've yet to see my Waithblades make their points back reliably. Though I love the models too much to shelf them just yet. And once they do make it to CC they are a powerhouse against any infantry w/o special melee weapons.

Okay, this is what I put together so far. Let me know what you think.

Windrider Host (463)
------------

Skyrunner Farseer w/ Singing spear
Skyrunner Warlock

Vyper w/ shuriken cannon, shuriken cannon

3 x Windrider w/ Scatter Laser
3 x Windrider w/ Scatter Laser
3 x Windrider w/Scatter Laser

Wraith Host (1385)
--------------------

Spiritseer

Wraithknight w/ 2 heavy wraith cannon
Wraithlord w/ 1 brightlance, 1 scatter laser, 2 flamer, ghostglave

5 x Wraithguard - Wave Serpent w/tl shuriken cannon, tl shuriken catapult

5 x Wraithguard - Wave Serpent w/tl shuriken cannon, tl shuriken catapult

5 x Wraithguard w/ D-Scythe - Wave Serpent w/tl Shuiken cannon, tl shuriken catapult

One thing I dont like about the eldar codex is that it basically writes the lists for you, that was zero skill you just took the required units and bam, brokeness. Its a good list now.. you will win many games.

The only thing youll have trouble with is against an eldar list that was more specifically written to a game plan played by an equal or better player than yourself.

The only change I'd make is ditching the scatter laser and glaive on the Lord in favour of some chin cannons, or all lasers on the serpents. Alternatively, I also like vectored engines on the scythe serpent.

I also personally prefer a CAD over a Windrider host for personal reasons. But this list isn't now far off what I ran to start with.

Id spam Warp Spiders, Bikes and Wraithknights. and reap the rewards of my tactical genius. *sarcasm

chadbrochill17 wrote:
One thing I dont like about the eldar codex is that it basically writes the lists for you, that was zero skill you just took the required units and bam, brokeness. Its a good list now.. you will win many games.

The only thing youll have trouble with is against an eldar list that was more specifically written to a game plan played by an equal or better player than yourself.

This list is for that specific purpose, my opponent is making a FMC nurgle summoning cheese list to oppose me. I get what your saying though, I also dont like them sticking vypers into every detachment option. It kind of forces you to buy at least one of them to fit any list. Im stuck using Hornet Fast attack vehicles as proxies for now.

If you want the cheesiest cheese that ever cheesed.

Max Bikers with Rending S6.

Then add in some D so you can give them the D.

 Sick Bag wrote:
If you want the cheesiest cheese that ever cheesed.

Max Bikers with Rending S6.

Then add in some D so you can give them the D.

That is only the cheesiest cheese to those that dont understand list building or competitive play. Max bikers offer very few tools, a massive footprint, and all your mobility is lost due to other bikes in the way.

Please stop perpetuating this ridiculousness.

chadbrochill17 wrote:

 Sick Bag wrote:
If you want the cheesiest cheese that ever cheesed.

Max Bikers with Rending S6.

Then add in some D so you can give them the D.

That is only the cheesiest cheese to those that dont understand list building or competitive play. Max bikers offer very few tools, a massive footprint, and all your mobility is lost due to other bikes in the way.

Please stop perpetuating this ridiculousness.

Yeah, I feel like the idea of maxing bikers is from the pre-release rumors when the sky was falling over OP bikes. I mean, the bike are pretty broken. But at least now people are realizing you cannot mono-build a list of ONLY bikes with SL or SC.

And to be fair in regards to how easy the new codex is for making competitive lists, it's not like it would be hard to make a net list for any other army anyways. Of course a net list for SM will be worse off than a Eldar net list, they are both equally as easy to copy.

This list is for that specific purpose, my opponent is making a FMC nurgle summoning cheese list to oppose me. I get what your saying though, I also dont like them sticking vypers into every detachment option. It kind of forces you to buy at least one of them to fit any list. Im stuck using Hornet Fast attack vehicles as proxies for now.

or you could just use a regular CAD and then use the other really awesome formation like aspect host of crimson death.

I am pretty sure 5 wraithknights are the way to go:

1 farseer
1 warlock
3x3jetbikes
1xvyper with 2 SC
(338)

5 wraithknights
(1475)
=
(1813)
Plus some upgrades