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Hey all,

This hasn't come up in a game yet but i was thinking about the Deathwing vehicle upgrade and how it lets you make the opponent re-roll the result on the penetration table. My question specifically relates to order of operations for a weapon destroyed result, as i can argue both sides. Should the DA player be allowed to force the re-roll after the weapon destroyed result has been resolved?

For example, lets say i have a venerable dreadnought (deathwing vehicle) with a twin linked lascannon and a power fist. Opponent gets a pen and rolls a weapon destroyed result, should at this point i ask for the re-roll, or wait until the weapon destroyed result is resolved and find out if it would take out the lascannon or power fist?

I see no reason why the weapon destroyed result could not be resolved before asking for the re-roll, as the re-roll is for the result of the penetration. I can explain further if need be but i think that gets the just of it.

Yeah I guess, although I'd play it that you had to decide to keep the result "weapon destroyed" and roll for what weapon is damaged as per the result requires, or, alternatively just reroll the result and hope for something else.
Talk to your opponant and work it out between yourselves.

The rule specifically states you can force the reroll on the "vehicle damage table"

It does not give you permission to use it on a roll for random allocation of weapon destroyed results.

I'd say you have to force the re-roll before you resolve the weapon destroyed, as once you've resolved it you've gone into the next part of the damage

 jokerkd wrote:
The rule specifically states you can force the reroll on the "vehicle damage table"

It does not give you permission to use it on a roll for random allocation of weapon destroyed results.

Whats your point? He's not suggesting the random allocation be re-rolled, he is asking if after the allocation is done, would it be too late to have the result be re-rolled and maybe not get weapon destroyed at all.

I would have to ask, if weapon destroyed is rolled again, would you re-randomly allocate the result or would the previous allocation stand?

IMHO once you figure out what weapon is chosen, you have moved passed the point where you should get to ask your opponent to re-roll that so I would not personally do that when playing dark angles but if my opponent did that to me, I wouldn't have a problem re-rolling.

 DJGietzen wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:
The rule specifically states you can force the reroll on the "vehicle damage table"

It does not give you permission to use it on a roll for random allocation of weapon destroyed results.

Whats your point? He's not suggesting the random allocation be re-rolled, he is asking if after the allocation is done, would it be too late to have the result be re-rolled and maybe not get weapon destroyed at all.

I would have to ask, if weapon destroyed is rolled again, would you re-randomly allocate the result or would the previous allocation stand?

IMHO once you figure out what weapon is chosen, you have moved passed the point where you should get to ask your opponent to re-roll that so I would not personally do that when playing dark angles but if my opponent did that to me, I wouldn't have a problem re-rolling.

I understand that and like I said I could argue for both sides on this, but in my opinion it should happen after. Weapon destroyed is the only one on the table that typically requires another roll and the their is no weapon destroyed result until that roll happens. So if the penetration roll is a weapon destroyed it should be "weapon X destroyed" is the result of the pen, now decide if re-roll or not. Why have the result only be partially resolved, while all the other options are immediately clear of their outcome before the decision to re-roll is made?

Never really thought about it. But I'd go with after the weapon is destroyed, cause the result is Weapon x destroyed, not weapon destroyed. Although if it was rolled weapon destroyed again I would take the first weapon destroyed result again (ie not re-roll which weapon).

Well, no. The result is not "weapon x is destroyed" its "a random weapon is destroyed*" and choosing the random weapon is part of applying the result, not determining it. Lets take another scenario. Lets say I am playing Dark Angels and Astra Militarium. I've got a deathwing land raider 2 inches from some conscripts. The armor of the land raider is penetrated by a lascannon and the explodes result is rolled. Should I be able to ask for a reroll after we resolve the explosion and determine that it has a blast radius of 5 inches and all but two of my conscripts caught in the explosion will fail their saves and die?