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So I have been playing 40k since the beginning of 6th Ed, and made the transference from 5th Ed. SM to 6th Ed SM, and have really enjoyed the Chapter Tactics. Especially the Salamanders, as they are pretty clear cut and work towards a nice army archetype. I especially enjoy Vulkan He'stan, with him being one of, if not, my favorite HQ within the codex. A question came up recently however, with the birth of my Dedicated Sternguard unit. I have outfitted this squad with 2 heavy flamers, 7 combi-meltas, and a power/plas sergeant. I usually run these guys in a tooled up Redeemer with Vulkan and Hareth Shen (From Forgeworld). The question rises in the case of the Combi-Meltas.

Vulkans special rule, The Forgefather, states that it Master-Crafts all Meltaguns, Multi-Meltas, and Combi-Meltas. It specifically states Combi-Meltas.

As written, that means that the Master-Crafted works on both ends of the weapon, the Bolter (and by extension, the Special Ammo) and the Melta. However in a game I was playing, my opponent started to argue with me that Vulcan only Master-Crafts the Melta half of the weapon, as the only other weapons being Master-Crafted by the Special Rule are Melta weapons.

This is where it gets into a Rules as Written verses a Rules as Intended. I can see my opponents point of view, and he can see mine. We ended up rolling off on it to continue our game, but this is still bugging me. I have found no FAQs on this matter, and this question has almost split our community almost completely in half. Everything is still friendly, don't get me wrong, but a final answer, either way, would bring much relief. So if there a consensus, FAQ, or anything to direct us to a conclusion, please post.

Personally, as I was taught to take the game at face value, the Rules as Written are the way to go. But I could be wrong.

If the rule said it master-crafted meltas then it would apply only to the melta half of the combi-melta. (Which is, for all rules purposes, a meltagun, just a one shot meltagun.) A combi-melta, however, is a total weapon, incorporating both the one-shot meltagun and a bolter. Mastercrafting the whole shebang means you still get the benefit of the MC rule even when firing as a boltgun.

Think of it this way - master-crafting represents a lot of care and effort being put into making an excellent weapon. Would Vulkan take all that time to work on just half of a gun, and let the rest be run of the mill?

That would be like spraying a vehicle, giving it a cursory wash and drybrush, and then spending hours freehanding an intricate design on its hull without doing anything else.

Fluff wise and RAW it has to be the whole thing master crafted. Rerolling one to hit each for sternguard is very strong but there are far worse things out there!

That was my thoughts on the matter as well. Thanks.

its definitely raw ... sallys are known to have some of the best equipment because of their forge and upkeep skills surpass everyone else

You might want to bring up the master artisan rule as an example ... every character gets to pick one weapon to upgrade to MC, taking vulkan just unlocks specific weapons (and since it doesn't say "just meltas" and mentions combis, it should be the entire weapon)

The full weapon would be MC. If it states 'combi-melta', it means the entire combi-melta.

Pretty certain it would only apply to the melta portion of the combi melta. If it was a carry over to the entire bolter it would say "master craft combi weapons" it specifically states combi melta as being mastercrafted.

Also using "salamanders are rad dudes who are good at making bolters" to justify RAW is technically using fluff to justify rules.

die toten hosen wrote:
Pretty certain it would only apply to the melta portion of the combi melta. If it was a carry over to the entire bolter it would say "master craft combi weapons" it specifically states combi melta as being mastercrafted.

The rule specifically states combi melta because if it said "master craft combi weapons" then this would master craft combi flamers and combi plasma which is definitely not RAW or RAI, and because it specifically states combi melta ti carries over to the entire bolter.

IMO if it was meant to be just the melta portion of combi-meltas it would say something akin to "All meltaguns (including those as part of combi-meltas) and multi-meltas are master-crafted."

Indeed, it it s the whole weapon, not the melta part. It even makes sense - master crafting a weapon means taking exceptional steps in the construction, ornamentation etc. Woudl you do that just to the "underslung" part, or would that just look a little silly?

So wait a minute, Vulkan's MC Melta rule affects Sternguard Special Ammunition fired from a Combi-Melta as well? Am I understanding this right? If so, that is downright brutal/broken/making me jealous!

Yes. The combi-weapon (entire) is master crafted, as the rule states.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes. The combi-weapon (entire) is master crafted, as the rule states.

Would it be bad form to scrape the little red fists the shoulders of my CF and put Salamander logos on them? Make them a Salamander Successor Chapter?