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This idea was spawned based on the miniatures featured in Dakka's Kickstarter page for Maelstrom's Edge. Specifically, the Karist Enclave Troopers and Epirian Firefly Drones; as pictured below:




GUE'VESA FIRE TEAM




Faction: Tau Empire

Force organisation: Troop

Cost: 30

Composition: 5 Gue'vesa'la

Unit type: Gue'vesa'la is Infantry. Gue'vesa'ui and Gue'vesa Fio'shas are Infantry (character). Gue'vesa drone is Jet pack infantry.


Stats


Wargear


Special rules


Options


Unique wargear


Thoughts?

Looks like a reasonable enough profile. Don't know if it adds anything you can't get elsewhere though. Would play against no sweat as long as you painted those ME models to look convincingly Tau-like

Hotshot lasguns and carapace armor makes them closer to stormtroopers rather than regular guardsmen. You should base the cost around troopers. They can't take orders and deepstrike but If i get it right they'll be able to ride fishes and benefit from markerligts instead. So, it's a tradeoff.

They've got one negative rule and one about fixing stuff, so it's a tradeoff.

Based on stormtrooper's cost without deepstrike, your guyz should cost ~12 ppm and not 6.

Also, squad leader veterans have +1 attack. With +1 ld that costs +10 pts over a regular guy.

 koooaei wrote:
Hotshot lasguns and carapace armor makes them closer to stormtroopers rather than regular guardsmen. You should base the cost around troopers. They can't take orders and deepstrike but If i get it right they'll be able to ride fishes and benefit from markerligts instead. So, it's a tradeoff.

They've got one negative rule and one about fixing stuff, so it's a tradeoff.

Based on stormtrooper's cost without deepstrike, your guyz should cost ~12 ppm and not 6.

Also, squad leader veterans have +1 attack. With +1 ld that costs +10 pts over a regular guy.

I don't think they should be 12 ppm, since that's what Scions are worth and are better equipped and statted than the Gue'vesa troops. Deducting Deep strike, Move through cover and Krak grenades makes me think they should be significantly lower in points.

I based the points around basic Guardsmen (4 ppm); and added 1.5 points for 4+ armour (comparable to Carapace armour) and +1 points for Hot-shot lasguns since I feel they're comparable to Boltguns. Then, rounded down. I admit it might be slightly undercosted. Perhaps 7-8 ppm (+1.5/2.5 points for Hot-shot lasguns)? Calculating based on Scions, their points would probably be around there as well. Another piece of consideration is that Fire Warriors are 9 ppm, pack more firepower, and are more multi-functional than the Gue'vesa.

P.S.: Good catch on the squad leader bonus. That's been added to both leaders.

Than get rid of hotshot lazguns whatsoever. They're worth 4 ppm iirc. Besides, they're only issued to special forces and not just regular vets. Besides, your guyz are bs3 which makes them more of a regular guardsman than vet.

Yep, i know, hotshot lazguns are not worth their points most of the time but that's how much they cost for ap3. If you don't like them, don't take them.

Than you can base your unit's cost around guards with carapace.

regular guardsman costs around 5 pts but they come with restrictions such as you can only take 2-5 x 10 with sarge + pcs. The upgrade to carapace should be around 1-2 ppm.

All in all, i feel that your guyz should cost around 7 pts with carapace and regular lazguns/autoguns (the weapons look more like autoguns after all). With an option of taking 2 special weapons per 10 - that's up from regular guard's 1 per 10. They should also have a mandatory sarge. Probably per every 10 guyz like in platoon. That'd be cool.

Also, why do you limit their special gear to just launchers and melta? Why no flamers? Also, it'd be nice to give them tau plazma - s6 ap2 no overheat.

 koooaei wrote:
Than get rid of hotshot lazguns whatsoever. They're worth 4 ppm iirc. Besides, they're only issued to special forces and not just regular vets. Besides, your guyz are bs3 which makes them more of a regular guardsman than vet.

Yep, i know, hotshot lazguns are not worth their points most of the time but that's how much they cost for ap3. If you don't like them, don't take them.

Than you can base your unit's cost around guards with carapace.

regular guardsman costs around 5 pts but they come with restrictions such as you can only take 2-5 x 10 with sarge + pcs. The upgrade to carapace should be around 1-2 ppm.

All in all, i feel that your guyz should cost around 7 pts with carapace and regular lazguns/autoguns (the weapons look more like autoguns after all).

I think your maths is a bit off. Even working based off of Tempestus Scions (12 ppm), the Gue'vesa'la have -1 BS, no Krak grenades, no Move through cover, and no Deep strike. That's at least 4 points of stats, wargear and special rules; though more like 5 points. Then, there's also the matter of the Death to traitors special rule, which is a straight debuff - that gives more than half the armies, both in terms of factions and player base, Preferred enemy against them - with no upside; which may or may not be worth another 1 point discount. All of this puts the Gue'vesa'la at the 6-8 ppm range.

Another way to look at it is in terms of how it balances within the Tau codex. At 9 ppm for Gue'vesa'la with Hot-shot lasguns, they would be grossly overpriced. For the same cost, they could get Fire warriors who out-perform them against GEQ and TEQ, and can also damage vehicles, and provide Supporting fire. The only place where the Gue'vesa'la perform better is against MEQ at <9" and out of cover. That's a very narrow niche to have. Consider also that at 6 ppm, Kroot out-perform them against TEQ, and GEQ in cover; and that's before considering they are loaded with special rules up the wazoo.

As for the weapons looking like autoguns, I disagree since they appear to be powered by power cells of some kind.

 koooaei wrote:
With an option of taking 2 special weapons per 10 - that's up from regular guard's 1 per 10. They should also have a mandatory sarge.

Actually, that's not a half bad idea. Though, I'm now thinking that if that's the case, perhaps the special weapons should be "Tau-ized" takes on Imperial weaponry. Perhaps a Tau grenade launcher and Grav rifle using the following profiles?

 koooaei wrote:
Also, why do you limit their special gear to just launchers and melta? Why no flamers?

I'm deliberately restricting myself based on the weapon options that come with the models. One clearly looks like a revolver-style grenade launcher and the other some kind of beam/energy weapon.