Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

While I don't play Tyranids, they are an army and faction that interest me. I've been reading up on Tyranid Units, and I have never seen anybody use a Hive Guard units on the tabletop.

On paper, these guys look great; T6 W2 4+sv, with a 24" range S8 AP4 gun that ignores line of sight and cover, with two shots per model, and 3 models max per unit. Ignores Cover could be big with skimmers and jink.

So why don't I see these more on the tabletop? Are they overpriced? The model looks cool. Are Zoanthropes really that much better?

 TheNewBlood wrote:
While I don't play Tyranids, they are an army and faction that interest me. I've been reading up on Tyranid Units, and I have never seen anybody use a Hive Guard units on the tabletop.

On paper, these guys look great; T6 W2 4+sv, with a 24" range S8 AP4 gun that ignores line of sight and cover, with two shots per model, and 3 models max per unit. Ignores Cover could be big with skimmers and jink.

So why don't I see these more on the tabletop? Are they overpriced? The model looks cool. Are Zoanthropes really that much better?

Well, it's not so much that they are bad it's just that venothropes, and Zoeys are better. You only get three slots. And Hive guard were nurfed into bs3....so two shots averages one hit. Add in that they cost more, and you know why they don't get much use.

Everything in the elite slot has to contend with synapse, warp lances, and shrouded.

If what that unit does is not CRAZY amazing for dirt cheap they will not be chosen over the thropes.

Well to be honest Zoanthropes arent that great either.

Say you take the max Hive Guard, 3 of them firing 6 shots, 3 will hit, against AV12 you still only have a 50% chance of glancing. Their damage output is just way too low. Last codex they had BS4 and were cheaper. GW, in their infinite wisdom, decided to give them a new awesome model and worse rules.

Hiveguard got slapped with a price increase for their main gun and a ballisitc skill reduction and in the current meta, T6 W2 and 4+ saves aren't anywhere near as durable as they used to be. In addittion, the nerf to AP4 with regards to vehicle damage tables hurt their abilities to kill vehicles pretty bad and their guns aren't really good against anything else.

My friend uses a squad of them. It has some success (specially with the no-LoS weapon). S8 is a problem when you don't have T5, even with 3+ armour

What do you mean they aren't bad?

I saw them kill 1/3 of their points one game one time. So if you keep them out of line of sight they are only really going to hit assault units

They aren't "bad" at all really. But in a meta where as a Nid player if you want to win you need 2-3+ Flyrants, Malanthrope and then some mix of mawlocs, lictors and some other support hitters what does short range bad ap 50 point blocks offer? Vs assault armies they melt easily, vs shooty armies they melt easily unless they have LoS terrain which isn't guaranteed and vs everything else you were better off with a mawloc or something in most cases.

They are not terrible and if you see them in a list that person isn't a idiot. I used to run a unit of 3 in 5th edition and loved them. Now? bs3 and 5points more made them hard to consider.

The problem with Hive Guard is that they don't have a required role. Ignores cover? Nice, but ap 4 means they would've taken a save anyways. Going against vehicles? A Hive Tyrant would've had better damage output almost every time and can also ignore cover with EGrubs. Strength 8 IDs toughness 4, but how many good units are multi wound T4 and don't have a good enough save to ignore ap 4, or are fast enough to avoid multiple rounds of shooting? Plus, they are slow moving and require a synapse babysitter and have mediocre range at best. Many armies rely on not having synapse backfield units as (barring the Malanthrope) they mainly suck.

For his points, there are simply better units. Flyrants are better anti vehicle and infantry, Mawlocs are better 2/3+ saves, there are tougher units that don't need synapse sadly.