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Hello internet.
I have issues what I should take against space marines, particularity dark angels.

Should I take possessed or zerkers? I intend to carry them around in the land rider, as I am giving my only rhino to 1k sons.
Whats' your opinion people what it better assault unit in CSM army? Also what mark is best for possesd? I am thinking about taking tzneech for 4++

Both are rather poor choices, I am afraid.

If you want an assault unit, try out Spawn or a Maulerfiend.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Both are rather poor choices, I am afraid.

If you want an assault unit, try out Spawn or a Maulerfiend.

Yeah I don't have thees yet and I ma not planing to buy any models, however I am sculpting up my own custom spawns, but they won't be ready any soon. So the only choice I have now are zerkers and possesed sadly.

Also I have heard plenty of bad things about Maulfiend.

The problem is that Possessed are twice the price of a Chaos Marine but they are not any tougher, so they die incredibly quickly.

Berzerkers are not as expensive as Possessed, but they are still far too pricy for what they are.

Now, Dark Angels is a very weak army so either unit might actually do something meaningful for this reason, but against most armies, both units will do little if anything at all.

The Maulerfiend is good for one reason - 12" move that ignores cover.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The problem is that Possessed are twice the price of a Chaos Marine but they are not any tougher, so they die incredibly quickly.

Berzerkers are not as expensive as Possessed, but they are still far too pricy for what they are.

Now, Dark Angels is a very weak army so either unit might actually do something meaningful for this reason, but against most armies, both units will do little if anything at all.

The Maulerfiend is good for one reason - 12" move that ignores cover.

Well possed have slightly more survivability, because they have demon special rule. I agree though both chocies are not that great on the paper and I only want to take some because I have no other choice. Well I am wondering if taking massive mob of cultists would be better idea instead.

Yeah Spawn are ace and very cheap for what they're good at (Tar-pitting or beating on weak flesh) Zerkers are sadly not much use against anything in armour. So very little point in using them. But go possessed in your land raider. You will get the chance of AP3 close combat woundage.

The Tzeench Deamonkin book should be coming out some time soon, so that may change what your thoughts are on them. Though they won't get Zerkers to play with.

the Khorne Deamonkin book is pretty sweet though. And you're forced into taking some possessed, that may fit your figures better than going down the filthy change god's route.

Yes, it is, as long as you manage their morale somehow. They are poor warriors but very cheap.

As for the daemon special rule, it's unlikely to come into play. Chaos Marines are easily killable with small arms fire as it is, so killing models that cost twice as much with the same amount of small arms fire is going to be an easy choice.

All right thanks people, I will try to get some spawns sooner.

Also I am not interested in Khorne or any other type of Demon kin book as I would like to field Chaos undivided army. Undivided was always my most favorite variant of chaos.

Now I would need to came out with reason why my guys would field Spawns. That's because I am building up custom war-band that doesn't like to use demons too much, so possessed, spawns and demons are not ideal choices fluff vise.

Also what about raptors, melee defilers and dreds?

Say the spawn are failures who did not manage to resist the dark gods and are sent off into battle as fodder.

Defilers and helbrutes are both poor choices. The raptors are comparatively decent.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Say the spawn are failures who did not manage to resist the dark gods and are sent off into battle as fodder.

Defilers and helbrutes are both poor choices. The raptors are comparatively decent.

That could work.
And what about Ferrum Infernum dredonaught? IT have much better stat-line than hell-brute and it's not much more expensive.
What is actual difference between black legion supplement book and default CSM codex?

While it has often been said that the Dark Angels 'dex is a poor one, you do realise that it's designed to kill CSM? How many deathwing terminators does your opponent have? You could be in trouble... I'd go for possessed, with mark of khorne, vets of the long war and an icon. That way they get 4 attacks on the charge with reroll misses and at S6. Nasty indeed, but if you're playing against dark angels with chaos I'd be inclined to stay away. Only problem then is you have to deal with all sorts of nasty plasma weaponry, so havocs and really, REALLY long-range firepower would be the way to go, I think.
Difference with Black legion is you get different warlord traits, some pretty mediocre artefacts, and if you take Abbadon then you can add +1 to your terminator's WS and BS. Other than that, it's not really worth getting. I've heard Crimson Slaughter could be quite good though, especially for possessed.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
While it has often been said that the Dark Angels 'dex is a poor one, you do realise that it's designed to kill CSM? How many deathwing terminators does your opponent have? You could be in trouble... I'd go for possessed, with mark of khorne, vets of the long war and an icon. That way they get 4 attacks on the charge with reroll misses and at S6. Nasty indeed, but if you're playing against dark angels with chaos I'd be inclined to stay away. Only problem then is you have to deal with all sorts of nasty plasma weaponry, so havocs and really, REALLY long-range firepower would be the way to go, I think.
Difference with Black legion is you get different warlord traits, some pretty mediocre artefacts, and if you take Abbadon then you can add +1 to your terminator's WS and BS. Other than that, it's not really worth getting. I've heard Crimson Slaughter could be quite good though, especially for possessed.

Yeah I know that DA are tailored to kill CSM, so I am taking some lost and damn for additional fire power and cheap distraction.
My opponent have will only have roughly 10 terminators in two squads, bikes and loads of tactical marines and some DA jets.

I am intending to take also hell drake, ferrum infernum dred, cultists and some basic CSM.

Well, with IA13 Black Legion is pretty nice for this: Chosen are Troops, which makes the dedicated Dreadclaw Objective Secured. That's pretty awesome for csm. BL also get a pretty awesome anti horde relic, but that's not gonna be much use for you.

The ferrum can be quite decent with the siege upgrade, otherwise you're probably better off with a contemptor or decimator as far as melee is concerned. Of course the blood slaughterer takes the cake for that, but it's auto khorne dedicated. Then again, brutes in a formation are ok, if you have the points. If you plan on taking cultists anyway, then maybe a helcult would work?

Roknar wrote:
Well, with IA13 Black Legion is pretty nice for this: Chosen are Troops, which makes the dedicated Dreadclaw Objective Secured. That's pretty awesome for csm. BL also get a pretty awesome anti horde relic, but that's not gonna be much use for you.

The ferrum can be quite decent with the siege upgrade, otherwise you're probably better off with a contemptor or decimator as far as melee is concerned. Of course the blood slaughterer takes the cake for that, but it's auto khorne dedicated. Then again, brutes in a formation are ok, if you have the points. If you plan on taking cultists anyway, then maybe a helcult would work?

Chosen also seams way overpriced, even more than zerkers or any cult troop.
Well I am not fond of the chaos drop pods at all 100pts and devour your own troops sounds quite bad.
Deceminator looks also as terribly overpriced option with no good weapons on it all.

I don't have any formations in the rulebook. I don't even know how formations work or what they are to be honest.

Possessed!

Im going to simply throw this out there for now. In the Khorne Daemonkin faction, your Berzerker Champions can be outfitted with an Axe of Khorne. Which are ap2 and strike at Initiative as we all know. On a Berzerker that will mean you are 5 attacks on the charge, str 5 ap2 striking first. It's not bad for it's price, you just need a delivery system. Thankfully, there are plenty of nice options for you out there!

 Whiskered wrote:

Roknar wrote:
Well, with IA13 Black Legion is pretty nice for this: Chosen are Troops, which makes the dedicated Dreadclaw Objective Secured. That's pretty awesome for csm. BL also get a pretty awesome anti horde relic, but that's not gonna be much use for you.

The ferrum can be quite decent with the siege upgrade, otherwise you're probably better off with a contemptor or decimator as far as melee is concerned. Of course the blood slaughterer takes the cake for that, but it's auto khorne dedicated. Then again, brutes in a formation are ok, if you have the points. If you plan on taking cultists anyway, then maybe a helcult would work?

Chosen also seams way overpriced, even more than zerkers or any cult troop.
Well I am not fond of the chaos drop pods at all 100pts and devour your own troops sounds quite bad.
Deceminator looks also as terribly overpriced option with no good weapons on it all.

I don't have any formations in the rulebook. I don't even know how formations work or what they are to be honest.

Depends on what you want. The claws give csm a fast objective secured option that doesn't compare to anything else they have, which can be worth it. And the chosen generally make their points back, at least for me. Same with the decimator, if your willing to pay for a contemptor, then this costs about the same but it lets you deep strike, which the contemptor can't do. And the stock siege claws are better than powerfists for certain targets. It's also tougher in a sense. I'm not saying either is a must have, but they have their uses. Besides...what ISN'T overpriced in csm? lol

Though if points are an issue, you may want to look into a fire raptor, it's good against pretty much any ground targets but it could also take on his flyers, depending on what is more urgent. It's quite a few points but very efficient and flexible.

Formations are like mini detachments that you can add beside your normal detachment. In the case of the helcult, you "have" to get 1 helbrute and 2 units of cultists, but the helbrute gets Rage and a 3+ coversave from the cultists, who get fearless (and zealot if the brute dies). So that one makes the helbrute way more survivable and better in melee to boot. and fearless cultists are pretty nice too.




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But as for the inital question, I prefer zerkers, assuming they have a to hit reroll. That combined with ws 5 is pretty gnarly. Without that though I's proabably go with possesed, given that your going against marines. I'm finding the chain axe upgrade to be better then you'd expect against non MEQ. Which is why I generall take zerkers over possesed.