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All the rules in Stronghold Assault seem to be covered in the 7th ed BRB. This makes sense - SA was 6th ed, so why not bring all those rules together in the latest rules (does anyone think we should still be referencing SA for anything?).

So my question is regarding battlements, and specifically embarking/disembarking. I can't quite find the answer in the BRB (should I be looking elsewhere?).

This is from the BRB -

"Battlements are treated as a separate piece of terrain from the building that they are on top of."

"Battlements are treated as an Access Point for their building, meaning that a unit inside the building can disembark onto the battlements, or vice-versa."

I have a number of Ork buildings, all with battlements. Most don't have external access (i.e. ladders or similar), but rather access hatches from within the building. I even have one with 2 battlements, as the building is half single storey and half 2 storey.

Common sense suggests a unit would enter the building, then access the battlements from there. But that would take two full turns of movement - one turn to embark into the building, a second to disembark onto the battlements. There's also impassable buildings, where the BRB explicitly states the building cannot be entered but "units can use their battlements".

Are we to assume that any model can scale the walls or similar to get to the battlements? Is that what the 'difficult terrain' is meant to achieve. That doesn't quite work for me from a 'realism' point of view (or as realistic as you can expect from 40k!).

I'm pretty sure you can have multiple units on battlements, as they aren't a building. So you could have more than one unit up there. Also the enemy could charge and assault you there - but can someone confirm I've got that right?

I'm probably missing or misunderstanding something pretty obvious, because it feels like I'm having to overthink this, so any explanation would really help.

Actually, you embark onto the battlements in the same way as you do a vehicle, so I don't think more than one unit can be embarked onto it at a time (this came up in a recent apoc game, when we tried to deep strike trueborn onto an aquila cannon's annex that had some other unit on top of it).

Also, the only mention of getting into or out of battlements is the permission to embark or disembark into them from the building, so I think you have to either deploy up there or spend a turn getting into the building, then get onto the battlements from within.

 Spellbound wrote:
Actually, you embark onto the battlements in the same way as you do a vehicle, so I don't think more than one unit can be embarked onto it at a time (this came up in a recent apoc game, when we tried to deep strike trueborn onto an aquila cannon's annex that had some other unit on top of it).

RaW: "Battlements are treated as a separate piece of terrain from the building that they are on top of. They are difficult terrain."

You can have as many Units as you wish in difficult terrain. The trueborn would only have misshaped if they were too close to the edge of the battlements. or within 1" from the other Unit. Otherwise, entirely feasible

As for taking 2 Turns to embark/disembark, yes, it takes a while. The rules for disembarking onto battlements are the same as for the main door: you can charge out, etc.

If battlements are their own terrain, and are access points to their buildings, doesn't this mean you can get into or out of the building in one turn by moving onto the battlements and embarking?

 Fenris Frost wrote:
If battlements are their own terrain, and are access points to their buildings, doesn't this mean you can get into or out of the building in one turn by moving onto the battlements and embarking?

If you had a way to get onto the battlement (Jump packs), you can then embark from there, yes. How that means you can embark and then disembark in 1 Turn, i don't know, as that is not permitted by the embarking rules.

I'm not sure i get your point?

Thanks for the responses guys.

Let me put my question slightly differently. If I've got a bog standard rank and file unit of infantry (let's say some Eldar Guardians) and they're currently stood on the ground, 4" from a building that has battlements (single storey building, approx. 4" high), how do I get the unit onto the battlements?

As I see it, the options are -

1. Get to within 2" of the building's Access Point and embark in the building. Movement complete. Next turn, disembark from the building onto the battlements.

(To me, this seems to be the RAW, but I think I'm misunderstanding, as that seems like an inordinate amount of time for trained soldiers to walk through a door and run upstairs)

2. Get to within 2" of the building's Access Point, embark in the building, and immediately disembark onto the battlements.

(I'm fairly sure this isn't allowed - you cannot embark and disembark in the same Movement phase)

3. Get onto the battlements by some other method, not entering the building at all. Scaling the wall?

(Regarding moving vertically, the BRB simply states "The Space Marine has a move of 6". He moves 3" horizontally to get beneath the floor of the ruined building, and then moves 3" vertically, ending the move one floor up as shown in the photograph." The photo shows no real means of the Marine getting up those 3" (maybe a Fosbury flop?). As battlements are difficult terrain, I'd need to roll sufficiently high to get the model up the side of the building, and then move a little bit once atop the battlements, to leave room for the next model. Given that my example starts 4" from the building, this will take two turns, but that makes sense. One turn to get next to the building, one to scale it. The issue I have with this is the presumed ability for any unit to scale any surface).

As I said in my first post, I feel like I'm overthinking this, so if anyone can enlighten me, that'd be great!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is also in the BRB -

"As part of their move, models can move through, up or over any terrain they encounter, unless the terrain is noted as being impassable. Models can also use their move to ‘climb up’ terrain, as long as the model is able to finish the move on a location where it can be stood. When measuring a move where a model climbs terrain, add the distance the model moves horizontally to the distance it has moved vertically; the result is considered to be the distance the model has moved."

Does this include the vertical walls of a building?

Yes, (1) is the only answer by RaW, though (3) might be possible.

For (3) it comes down to personal preference. Bastion walls are usually assumed Impassable, but nothing in the RaW says they are. The issue with scaling them, is that IIRC they are pretty much exactly 6" high. As such, you would need a movement of 7" to move up + 1" to fit on the edge of the battlement. This also means your entire Unit would have to hug the wall completely, and then end their move right on the edge. Measure the vertical to confirm, but the easier choice is: Bastion Wall = Impassable.

Your last quote says "unless the terrain is noted as being impassable", and see above as to whether bastion walls are (or not).

We've always played where if you have sufficient movement to get up there, and the walls were not deemed Impassable, then you can get up there. You cannot, however, "stop mid-way up and complete your move next turn". For a Bastion, this meant that you'd have to be right at the base of it to get up the wall, since I think it's not quite 6" high, but it'd be very difficult to do so. Again, this requires that you are not deeming the walls as being impassable terrain, which is up to you and your opponent to discuss what is and is not impassable.

So, agreeing with BlackTalos - (1) and (3) are fine. (2) is not.

 Yarium wrote:
since I think it's not quite 6" high,

Someone has to measure this, but I know that it is more than 5" high.

This means that when performing your difficult terrain roll, you have to get a 6. I'm just saying this might take 2 turn to complete and completely defeats your goal in the first place.

The question / choice of "scaling Bastion walls" is much more relevant in the assault phase, and charging up a vertical wall. Which is why i'd put it this way:
(1) Yes, RaW. (3) If i was playing you, i'd say no: Bastion walls are impassable terrain and you cant charge "up the side".

So i'd go for more of a (3) = no
in most cases, but decide with your opponent if you want a "mines of Moria"-style game