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Forgive me if this question sounds dumb, but since the beginning of the current edition I've been very unclear as to how independent characters interact with formations. For example, I see people stating that they add a Mad Dok to a Green Tide to grant it FNP. Is this legal, can I add any IC to a formation (assuming that my army consists of CAD and the formation)? Could I for instance add a mega armoured warboss to grotsniks formation and have him come on from my opponents board edge, which used to be a favourite tactic?

CADs, ADs, formations are all detachments. Main thing that determines if IC can join a unit from another detachment is the faction and allies matrix. An ork can join orks.

 ColonelFazackerley wrote:
CADs, ADs, formations are all detachments. Main thing that determines if IC can join a unit from another detachment is the faction and allies matrix. An ork can join orks.

So your answer is: Yes? Provided they are the same faction all is good?

 goblinzz wrote:

 ColonelFazackerley wrote:
CADs, ADs, formations are all detachments. Main thing that determines if IC can join a unit from another detachment is the faction and allies matrix. An ork can join orks.

So your answer is: Yes? Provided they are the same faction all is good?

Yes, as long as 1. The two units are Battle Brothers, and 2. Nothing in the formation restricts it.

 Happyjew wrote:

 goblinzz wrote:

 ColonelFazackerley wrote:
CADs, ADs, formations are all detachments. Main thing that determines if IC can join a unit from another detachment is the faction and allies matrix. An ork can join orks.

So your answer is: Yes? Provided they are the same faction all is good?

Yes, as long as 1. The two units are Battle Brothers, and 2. Nothing in the formation restricts it.

Nice, thanks for helping me clear that up!

Would I be correct in suggesting your confusion may stem from Independent Characters from one detachment joining a unit from another formation at deployment or during the game (which is allowed, provided the two detachments/formations are Battle Brothers) versus the idea of simply selecting an Independent Character and somehow joining that as part of the Formation (which is not allowed, unless the Independent Character is listed as part of the formation)?

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Would I be correct in suggesting your confusion may stem from Independent Characters from one detachment joining a unit from another formation at deployment or during the game (which is allowed, provided the two detachments/formations are Battle Brothers) versus the idea of simply selecting an Independent Character and somehow joining that as part of the Formation (which is not allowed, unless the Independent Character is listed as part of the formation)?

Possibly...?

In this specific instance I'm trying to figure out whether i can still pull shenanigans with Snikrot. So for example can I buy a warboss for my primary detachment, and at deployment, declare he is joining the Kommandos who are staying in reserve?

Well I think specifically in that case you can't, unless the Warboss has Infiltrate, because of the relatively recent rulebook errata which states:

"An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment, and vice versa."

Otherwise though, ordinarily you can join Independent Characters from one detachment to friendly units from other detachments.

Especially as you cannot wait until the Infiltrate step to deploy your IC; it MUST either deploy normally, or go into some form of reserves.

You could hold Snikrot in reserve, declaring outflank, and join the IC that way (barring anything in Sniks rules specifically disallowing this) of course.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You could hold Snikrot in reserve, declaring outflank, and join the IC that way (barring anything in Sniks rules specifically disallowing this) of course.

Would this not still be joining an IC without the Infiltrate special rule to a unit with Infiltrate, and therefore not allowed?

I was going that this is "instead of deploying..."

Its stilla horribly worded FAQ.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You could hold Snikrot in reserve, declaring outflank, and join the IC that way (barring anything in Sniks rules specifically disallowing this) of course.

Would this not still be joining an IC without the Infiltrate special rule to a unit with Infiltrate, and therefore not allowed?

As they aren't deploying by infiltrate, I've always figured this was allowed

Its the argument of "when is a unit with the Infiltrate special rule an "infiltrator""?

Is it when they use the special rule to Infiltrate (i.e. not Outflank) , or are they always Infiltrators i.e. models possessing the special rule "infiltrate", same as you could argue a unit with the Scouts rule are always "Scouters"

I think RAI I shouldn't mix those two units together, which is a shame, that used to be a hilarious trick!

nosferatu1001 wrote:Especially as you cannot wait until the Infiltrate step to deploy your IC; it MUST either deploy normally, or go into some form of reserves.

You could hold Snikrot in reserve, declaring outflank, and join the IC that way (barring anything in Sniks rules specifically disallowing this) of course.

Deployment and Deploying are not always the same thing. Deployment occurs before the game's first turn and involves either putting models on the table or declaring their units in Reserve. Deploying is when the unit is placed on the table, which would include coming in from Reserves.

The FAQ refers to Deployment, which includes the declaration of Reserves, which is the only time an IC can join a unit in Reserves.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Its the argument of "when is a unit with the Infiltrate special rule an "infiltrator""?

Is it when they use the special rule to Infiltrate (i.e. not Outflank) , or are they always Infiltrators i.e. models possessing the special rule "infiltrate", same as you could argue a unit with the Scouts rule are always "Scouters"

Either interpretation is valid. Either one capable of, or one who is. The suffix usually refers to "one who does". English is a little wonky this way.

Which is why there is an issue - if either is valid you can join or not join in outflank

OMG, I have opened a can of worms... So ther eis no community consensus on whether or not this is a valid option?

Not really, no. Infiltrate has always been a huge can of worms. I'd play it as you can.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Which is why there is an issue - if either is valid you can join or not join in outflank

Well, there is even more issues there. Infiltrate provides Outflank. So, it could easily be said that if a unit with Infiltrate is held back in Reserves to Outflank, one would need to prove this was not because of Infiltrate in order to not be classified as Infiltrators, no matter the definition.

Now, that is just one interpretation of the sequence, though. It could easily be interpreted as that Outflanking is not technically Infiltrating, which goes back to how extensive the term "Infiltrator" really implies.

Though, personally, I see the term "Infiltrator" as being "one who can", not just "one who is". A Painter isn't just a painter when they have a brush in their hand, after all.

Outflanking is not infiltrating, as it is also provided by scouts. It is simply a rule gained by having the infiltrate rule.

I think the last sentence of the Infiltrate rules is telling in determining whether "units with the Infiltrate special rule" and "Infiltrators" are synonymous:

"Having Infiltrate also confers the Outflank special rule to units of Infiltrators that are kept as Reserves."

This confirms, I believe, that certainly electing to set up using the Infiltrate special rule outside of the usual deployment restrictions or choosing to Outlank qualifies a unit as being "Infiltrators".

I'm unsure whether that extends to definitively or necessarily include a unit that simply has the Infiltrate special rule, irrespective of whether they choose to make use of it, as being "Infiltrators", however.

Infiltrating is not a choice.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Infiltrating is not a choice.

It is, actually, but only when putting the unit in question in to Reserves.

If deploying during Deployment, you are correct, there is no choice.