Eldar Phoenix Lords. Any conflict or bad blood?

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**BobNT**

I've just read an extract from the New BL novel. Asurmen: Hand of Asuryan.

During the meeting of the Phoenix lords, it seems to suggest some tension between Maugan-Ra and Fuegan, or at least the lack of respect to acknowledge each other. Is there some history of bad blood between the 2 of them or is Fuegan just the grumpy sod that he comes across as in the few pages I've read?

**TheManWithNoPlan**

As far as I know; Inter-Pheonix-Lord relationships haven't been touched upon in the past in the fluff.

**Relapse**

I'd be careful of taking too much of what are in the Black Library books as canon. I point you to Swallow's take on the Blood Angels and the Horus Heresy Assassin novels as two instances of the authors not knowing their subject.

**pm713**

What was wrong in those books?

**ColonelFazackerley**

Current Craftworlds codex says this about Maugan Ra

When Asurmen taught the arts of war, it was Maugan Ra that fell furthest from the fold. He
fashioned baroque weapons of occult nature, learning how best to kill his prey before they
had a chance to strike in turn. Not for him the shining swords of his brethren, but instead
dark and sinister artefacts that defied categorisation.

This does suggest MR is the most likely to disagree with the others.

**Iracundus**

Not really, if by disagreement you mean personal friction or conflict. Maugan Ra differed philosophically in that he developed an Aspect around long range massed killing as opposed to the more up close and personal styles of fighting favored by the other major Phoenix Lords.

The Birth of the Reapers

When Asurmen, the first and oldest among the Phoenix Lords, taught his brethren the arts of war it was the Harvester of Souls that fell furthest from the fold. He recognised the fact that the Fall had decimated the Eldar race, and that their numbers could never reach the peaks that they had once scaled. Together with one of his brothers who is now lost to even the long memeory of the Eldar, he believed that no matter their skill, the Eldar could not match the teeming hordes of Ork and Human, man for man and blade for blade. With this in mind, he fashioned great baroque weapons from purest wraithbone, just as Asurmen had taught him. But these were not the swords or scimitars of his brothers. Each of the weapons Maugan Ra created were great cannons capable of spitting death into the ranks of the foe from leagues away. As his craft progress, Maugan Ra learnt that even a great cannon could be used as subtly as a scalpel, and strove for power twinned with precision. This led to the creation of the Maugetar, and later to the philosophy of the Dark Reaper Aspect [as] (sic) a whole.

WD 284

Although that lost brother is not named (and Irillyth was not yet created by FW), have to wonder now whether effectively it is now retconned as Irillyth, Phoenix Lord of the Shadow Spectres since the Shadow Spectres are also about long range death.

**chromedog**

He also has a particular resonance with Altansar, the craftworld that was thought lost (and re-emerged from the warp). There has always been suspicion of taint about EVERYTHING about that lot.

**Furyou Miko**

I always assumed that the lost brother was Ahra.

**BobNT**

chromedog wrote:
He also has a particular resonance with Altansar, the craftworld that was thought lost (and re-emerged from the warp). There has always been suspicion of taint about EVERYTHING about that lot.

Whilst I've read some of the background to this story, I'm not sure why Fuegan would seem to be more negative to Maugan-Ra than any of the other Phoenix Lords, assuming they all have similar knowledge of Altansar and Maugan-Ra's history.. I suspect Fuegan is just the angriest / moodiest of the PLs

**Ashiraya**

Furyou Miko wrote:
I always assumed that the lost brother was Ahra.

Or the Warp Spider Phoenix Lord!

**Massaen**

Could not be ahra as he was chased away at the fall while the references to the lost brother are after the fall.

**chromedog**

I don't think there's ever been an official WS phoenix lord.

That execrable BL novel that featured one made no sense to the overall existing canon.

There is probably the first exarch of that shrine, though, and his gear is probably still *out there* somewhere, though. Due to the nature of how they get where they go, though, I doubt any eldar will ever find it.

**Furyou Miko**

Massaen wrote:
Could not be ahra as he was chased away at the fall while the references to the lost brother are after the fall.

How can he have been chased away during the Fall, and founded the Striking Scorpion shrine after it?