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My question is posed because a.) I love guardians, and b.) I love guardians. Well, also c.) They used to be a helluva great list.

Think back to 3rd and 4th Ed, right around the time EoT came out.

Anyone have that one player who took an eldar list full of guardian squads, with jetbikes, walkers, wraiths, seers, tanks, and maybe an aspect or two?

Looking at the current rules for these guys, particularly their cheap cost, bladestorm, and the option to build massive squads, my question, reposed is : How workable or viable is a guardian heavy army?

Mind you, I'm not asking tournament-wise. But generally, if you've either seen this sort of a list in action (meaning ulthwe craftworld or similar builds, guardian heavy lists) or have played one recently, I'd love your feedback!

I'm of a mind to resurrect the CD chuckin' death dealers

-SCP

Using defenders I think it seems decent at least since you can add a free EML (or 2 if you take 20 man units). A decent advantage to the 20 man units would be each could have a warlock and you could shroud the entire unit every turn (this could be done at 10 man, but its so much more expensive compared to the unit cost).

I mean 215 points for 23 bodies that have battle focus and can shoot 2 EML a turn with a 5+ cover save at all times is pretty decent. If they sit in ruins on an objective its a lot of points, but I don't see whats going to takeout that many bodies with at least 3+ cover saves at ranged and with over 40 shots if anything gets close they will kill most things they can hurt. The obvious downside to this is you have to buy like 60 guardian squads, so clearly proxy it a bunch first.

The otherside is just taking minimum units with 1 EML each and just planting them on objectives and shooting the EML each turn, but they will die to just about any ranged shooting. The upside is you can get the whole Battlehost formation for like 600 points min, leaving the rest for the formations and your entire army auto runs 6" which is neat. You can also try a similar thing with the Stormhost Formation for like 54 points cheaper and go for a more assault based route using an Avatar.

Guardians are effective, in that they are cheap troops that can take a heavy weapon to provide long-range support to the rest of your army. They are also effective with Bladestorm at close range, even at 10 bodies.

Don't believe the hype about taking the EML platform on Guardians, as it detracts from their role: running between cover to score objectives. IMO the best weapon for them is the Starcannon, as it is the most generalist choice.

The thing with the Guardian Battlehost is that the points you save with cheap Guardians are eaten up in other areas because the formation has to function as an effective core to the army to be effective. That means taking Warlocks in a conclave (the only place they belong, by the way), larger Vyper and War Walker Squads, and 2x or 3x Vaul's Wrath in the battery. That ends up around 950-1000 points. After that you can start thinking about formations, but keep in mind that those don't come cheap either. Wave Serpents make anything more expensive.

I do think that Guardians have a place in effective armies and can be good on the tabletop, but only when they play to their strengths: low cost, solid mobility, and excellent anti-infantry.

I like running Guardians with Scatter Laser or Starcannon. I am not sure why people would put the Missile Launcher in them.

You can run CAD with Guardians or Guardian Host detachment. Ignore the Storm Guardians; they suck balls. Whichever the case, make sure all Guardians are inside a Wave Serpent at the beginning of the game. They need that to get into range and escape from Flamers.


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I like running Guardians with Scatter Laser or Starcannon. I am not sure why people would put the Missile Launcher in them.

You can run CAD with Guardians or Guardian Host detachment. Ignore the Storm Guardians; they suck balls. Whichever the case, make sure all Guardians are inside a Wave Serpent at the beginning of the game. They need that to get into range and escape from Flamers.

I think the choice between a starcannon and EML depend entirely on the rest of your list as the cost is 0 in the formation. Outside the formation starcannon all the way. I feel the first question is what is your lists ability to kill air/ AV 12+ vehicles. If you feel light on your ability to kill those, than an EML will most likely always be better then a starcannon for your list. Meanwhile if your list has like 2 units of dark reapers you already have plenty of AP 3 (or lower) and Str 8 along with rerolls vs air (still need 6's), but can potentially lack vs terminator or their equivalent so the starcannon is just instantly better. If you are running multiple wraith units (or just dscythes w/ webway) then terminators aren't as big a deal, but air and long range vs vehicles can be.

Taking an EML vs starcannon when both are free is pretty much dependent on the rest of your list.

SilverSaint wrote:
Using defenders I think it seems decent at least since you can add a free EML (or 2 if you take 20 man units).

You have to pay for the second weapons platform though, right? It says you may take "a" weapons platform for free. I've been taking that to mean a single platform, rather than a single type of platform. Am I mistaken somehow? Is there a debate somewhere on this that I don't know about?

Guardian lists are definitely viable.

The Defender stormhost is a fantastic choice, even to the point of being a strong tournament list. You can definitely build cheese around it.

Automatic 6'' battlefocus is amazing. Vypers are a slight tax, but War Walkers, and Vauls Wrath are strong choices. You get free EML's on your guardian squads (saving a bundle of points).

The 6' run applies to anything taken as part of the host, such as a Wraithhost (6'' batlefocusing D Weapons?) or aspect shrines. Make those spiders move even faster, and warp spiders even more mobile. Even such things as dire avengers will love this addition to their rules. Fire dragons and banshees will love it too.


I personally want to make a stormhost list. Free meltas/power swords, and an avatar nearby for rage, furious charge and fearless means that storm guardians are actually half decent in combat. They're still storm guardians...but...