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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 09:06:54
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Violent Space Marine Dedicated to Khorne
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Hi people,
Hope this is the right place as it´s a bit of Army list advice/General Rambling.
The power of the Necron Decurion left my local gaming group in shock and awe. I just played 2 games so far (Reclamation Legion+Judicator Batallion) with success. So I agreed with my buddy on a “friendly” game. I promised not to bring the Decurion or any other ~ OP~ units/combinations (hello Wraiths/Canoptek Harvest/Orikanstar). Actually I never used Canoptek Harvest or Orikanstar anyway. I also send him my list asking if he´s alright with it (damn was I naive).
We were playing 1000 points Necrons vs. Tyranids.
My Combined Arms Detachment
Disclaimer: While this list maybe look horrible to the experienced necron player be aware that I´m fairly new to the hobby and only played about 10 games so far before the new codex hit the shelves. I tried to avoid any big synergies. Imhothek, obyron and the shroud bomber were there because I never used but always wanted to try em. Scarabs were there for distraction or some fast objective grabbing. General Plan was to shock Obyron using the Ghostwalk Mantle into the battle and maybe use the Crypteks Veil of Darkness to grab another objective while blinding the biggest threat with the solar staff/pulse
His List:
I abandoned the thought of winning pretty fast after I saw what he deployed and tried to inflict as many damage as possible while going down in flames. There were some epic rolls rolls on my side (Lord of the storm yesyes) as well as some abysmal ones. The Bomber didn´t hit anything with the bombs because I rolled max scatter range…twice. Obyron uses ghostwark mantle and mishaps, getting placed at the table edge, deepstriking again with the crypteks veil scattering 11inch back the way they came from only to get mowed down slowly without ever getting in range to anything. The Game ended 5-1 for my buddy with 1-2 unsaved wounds on the carnifexes but without a single model lost.
Taking aside all the bad luck with the bombs and the “hammer” of my army the scythe guard never getting into combat at all I don´t think I would have had a chance anyway (which would have been perfectly fine if i would have atleast killed a single carnifex).
I was really trying to be a good sportsman with that list. I like my games with heavy casualties and both sides and close scores, but I feel like bringing 5 MC´s to a “friendly” 1000 game is far from being a good sport. My buddy of course thinks otherwise.
It´s really frustrating showing goodwill and getting nothing back in return. I´m not gonna lie It´s hard to suppress the urge to throw a Decurion Orikanstar or Wraithwing in his face next time.
So my questions are:
1. Do you think his list appropriate for a “friendly” game of that size? That should be fun for both?
2. Do you think my List is appropriate?
3. How can I improve my list so I have a chance against that many MC´s without any synergies going through the roof. I think I would remove the Bomber, scarabs and Imhothek for 6 Heavy Destroyers or something like that.
Thanks for your replies.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/08 09:08:51
stealth992 wrote:...
Or you can just keep buying chaos everything, and not play them. Just sit alone in your room for years, painting and detailing, and detailing some more. Then keep doing that for years until you own upwards of 10000 points of chaos. Keep shining their swords and sharpening their knives. Then some day, some wonderful day, when a new book comes out that will realize your armies' potential, come out from hiding. Everyone will have thought you had left warhammer 40k for good, but no, you had been training, preparing, and brooding for this moment. Return with such vengeance and hatred that you will not hold back, and you will destroy everything in your path. Like a true chaos crusade, wait for the right moment, then burst forth from the Eye of Terror and unleash your pain on the whole universe. And when they cry and complain that you are OP and that it's not fair. Reassure them that it's true. It isn't fair, but it's what they DESERVE. All of them, each and every one of them deserve to be obliterated into oblivion. And if they ask you to play with a fluffy army, tell them you will do so. But on game day bring the meanest nastiest, ugliest army you can. Give them no opportunity for victory, give them no opportunity for enjoyment. Your only goal is to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible. And when they cry, and they will cry, laugh at them, drink their salty tears, and bath in their sweet, sweet blood.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 09:50:43
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Destroyers, Wraiths and Praetorians are all pretty decent against monsters. I don't think anyone considers the Judicator Battalion to be overpowered, so there's always that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 14:37:47
Subject: Re:[Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Honestly your biggest problem is you drowned yourself in characters, particularly at 1000 points.
At 1000 I would generally take either a plain cryptek with one relic, or Orikan. Maybe Szeras if going for a mostly pure gunline list.
Honestly though, his list isn't too bad at all, you've just not got enough guns on the table to wound him down.
Not sure how you failed to get the Lychguard into combat: Teleporting them across the table should have got you to the point where they could run down a Carnifex on turn 2. Mishap? That's really bad luck with a unit that size.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 15:15:33
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I agree. Personally I'd take either Orikan (if I wanted a unit leader) or a Catacomb Command Barge (for a solo beatstick).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 15:23:46
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
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Your list wasn't that beefy, you just brought too many toys. Ditch the bomber and the lord of war, toss in a few destroyers and you will be fine. Still not a WAAC list, but still will have punch to put up a fight.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/08 15:46:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 17:54:51
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Dakka Veteran
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His list isn't great at all
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 18:57:24
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Freaky Flayed One
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His list is actually pretty terrible.
Did you use Imo's lightning ability? That alone should have netted you a bit of damage.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 19:36:59
Subject: Re:[Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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A quick attempt at mixing the fact that you went for teleporting Scythe Lychguard (not a bad choice at all against an all 6 inch move army with high toughness) with advice from various people thus far:
Cryptek with Veil, Chronometron.
10 Lychguard bodyguard (Will survive to maim more reliably and kill the enemy quicker, plus you can't take two relics so helps with the lack of Solar Staff)
5 Deathmarks (Leftover points, and they're good against Nids because they're guaranteed a target be it MCs or trying to assassinate Synapse)
10 Warriors,
10 Immortals, (Gunlines are important, don't neglect them without a really good reason)
3 Destroyers,
3 More Destroyers (Preferred enemy AP3 Gauss. Always good, would help scythe off a few MC wounds or batter down the only synapse here)
5 points left over.
Not optimal or anything, but a decent example of a fairly light, somewhat themed list that would do well in most situations and specifically better here.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 21:04:49
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Violent Space Marine Dedicated to Khorne
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Sorry for the late reply was kinda busy.
Okapi wrote:Destroyers, Wraiths and Praetorians are all pretty decent against monsters. I don't think anyone considers the Judicator Battalion to be overpowered, so there's always that.
I already had the praetorians in my hands but then decided to give my lychguard a chance when i built the list.
changemod wrote:Honestly your biggest problem is you drowned yourself in characters, particularly at 1000 points.
At 1000 I would generally take either a plain cryptek with one relic, or Orikan. Maybe Szeras if going for a mostly pure gunline list.
Honestly though, his list isn't too bad at all, you've just not got enough guns on the table to wound him down.
Not sure how you failed to get the Lychguard into combat: Teleporting them across the table should have got you to the point where they could run down a Carnifex on turn 2. Mishap? That's really bad luck with a unit that size.
Turn 1 they ran to grab an objective, turn 2 they tried to deepstrike to the tasty carnifexes and scattered right into a mountain, 2nd deepstrike they scattered 11 inches back where they came from. I think i can blame the dice for it. Some more warriors surely would have helped there. One group of Immortals got instablapped by 2 big spores.
Okapi wrote:I agree. Personally I'd take either Orikan (if I wanted a unit leader) or a Catacomb Command Barge (for a solo beatstick).
Yea definitely gonna try him next time. Not sure if The stars are right works reliable in games with so low points. The game only lasted 3 Turns and iirc you need to get to roll below the current turn. Quite tricky.
gwarsh41 wrote:Your list wasn't that beefy, you just brought too many toys. Ditch the bomber and the lord of war, toss in a few destroyers and you will be fine. Still not a WAAC list, but still will have punch to put up a fight.
Yep that was also my thought. Out with the overpriced toys and in with some reliable damage.
jakejackjake wrote:His list isn't great at all
Compared to my list? I doubt it. Why do you think that? 2-3 unsaved wounds and half of the firepower of one of my immortal squad is down to/below 50%, 2-3 unsaved wounds on a carnifex and his firepower is exactly the same.
Ferros wrote:His list is actually pretty terrible.
Did you use Imo's lightning ability? That alone should have netted you a bit of damage.
Same as above. Care to elaborate? Lord of the Storm ate 3 HP from 2 different carnifexes and a warrior.
changemod wrote:A quick attempt at mixing the fact that you went for teleporting Scythe Lychguard (not a bad choice at all against an all 6 inch move army with high toughness) with advice from various people thus far:
Cryptek with Veil, Chronometron.
10 Lychguard bodyguard (Will survive to maim more reliably and kill the enemy quicker, plus you can't take two relics so helps with the lack of Solar Staff)
5 Deathmarks (Leftover points, and they're good against Nids because they're guaranteed a target be it MCs or trying to assassinate Synapse)
10 Warriors,
10 Immortals, (Gunlines are important, don't neglect them without a really good reason)
3 Destroyers,
3 More Destroyers (Preferred enemy AP3 Gauss. Always good, would help scythe off a few MC wounds or batter down the only synapse here)
5 points left over.
Not optimal or anything, but a decent example of a fairly light, somewhat themed list that would do well in most situations and specifically better here.
Crap i totally overlooked that my cryptek had two artifacts, thanks. Deathmarks and Destroyers probably would have been great. If i would have known that he has that many mc´s my list probably would have looked like that. Talking about assassinating synapse. If the Night Shrouds Bomb would have hit his warriors his synapse would have been instakilled in one blow BUT the dicegods were not on my side this day and scattered 6inches. You don´t reduce bomb scatter range by the units BS right?
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/06/08 21:07:53
stealth992 wrote:...
Or you can just keep buying chaos everything, and not play them. Just sit alone in your room for years, painting and detailing, and detailing some more. Then keep doing that for years until you own upwards of 10000 points of chaos. Keep shining their swords and sharpening their knives. Then some day, some wonderful day, when a new book comes out that will realize your armies' potential, come out from hiding. Everyone will have thought you had left warhammer 40k for good, but no, you had been training, preparing, and brooding for this moment. Return with such vengeance and hatred that you will not hold back, and you will destroy everything in your path. Like a true chaos crusade, wait for the right moment, then burst forth from the Eye of Terror and unleash your pain on the whole universe. And when they cry and complain that you are OP and that it's not fair. Reassure them that it's true. It isn't fair, but it's what they DESERVE. All of them, each and every one of them deserve to be obliterated into oblivion. And if they ask you to play with a fluffy army, tell them you will do so. But on game day bring the meanest nastiest, ugliest army you can. Give them no opportunity for victory, give them no opportunity for enjoyment. Your only goal is to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible. And when they cry, and they will cry, laugh at them, drink their salty tears, and bath in their sweet, sweet blood.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 21:28:58
Subject: Re:[Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Screaming Shining Spear
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As far as sportsmanship goes, you're on the right path as far as not bringing any units that people would consider "OP". You just might have taken some poor choices in this battle, along with your tyranid friend (Old One Eye? Really?).
The Decurion itself isn't OP. It's only when taken in concert with the Canoptek Harvest that it starts crossing a line. Wraiths are undercosted by themselves; it only the Canoptek Harvest or blatant spam that makes them OP. Honestly, the rest of the Necron codex is fine. Orikanstar has the same problem that almost all deathstars have: not enough scoring units of their own, and the inability to kill more than one unit at a time.
It's just a shame that some people have the attitude that whole armies and factions are "OP" and anyone who plays them is "TFG". Trust me, there are armies that have it a lot worse *coughEldarcough*.
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~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 21:46:40
Subject: Re:[Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Oh no, the Decurion absolutely is overpowered by it's very definition: You get the detachment bonuses for your formations already, then on top of that it hands out a free upgrade to every unit worth at least 30 points. I'd go so far as to say that it's as much a breach of etiquette to take without prior arrangement as a superheavy is.
I've not lost a single game since the new codex came out as is without needing to dip into it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/08 22:27:25
Subject: Re:[Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Screaming Shining Spear
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changemod wrote:Oh no, the Decurion absolutely is overpowered by it's very definition: You get the detachment bonuses for your formations already, then on top of that it hands out a free upgrade to every unit worth at least 30 points. I'd go so far as to say that it's as much a breach of etiquette to take without prior arrangement as a superheavy is.
I've not lost a single game since the new codex came out as is without needing to dip into it.
Have you seen the new Skitarii/Mechanicus formation that gives all the units free upgrades and relics? I wounder what you would make of that.
Yes, the Decurion is quite powerful. But it puts severe restrictions on how flexible your army construction can be. And because of GW's release schedule, people haven't yet found out good ways to counter Necrons on the tabletop yet.
Is the Decurion strong to the point of not being particularly friendly? Probably. Is it overpowered and unbeatable? No.
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~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/09 01:36:41
Subject: Re:[Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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TheNewBlood wrote:Have you seen the new Skitarii/Mechanicus formation that gives all the units free upgrades and relics? I wounder what you would make of that.
Similar idea. There's an Eldar one too.
More than one army having auto-broken setups doesn't mean it's suddenly polite to take one without prior arrangement so your opponent knows to break out the excessive stuff too.
Yes, the Decurion is quite powerful. But it puts severe restrictions on how flexible your army construction can be
Which isn't a practical hinderance to power. I would agree that the Decurion is quite poor from a fluffy list building perspective, but that's not particularly relevant to the free buffs it hands out like candy.
And because of GW's release schedule, people haven't yet found out good ways to counter Necrons on the tabletop yet.
There won't be a hard counter to Necrons as a whole, durability as a whole is phenomenal and there's not really a gaping tactical flaw some unit or other can't cover.
Is the Decurion strong to the point of not being particularly friendly? Probably. Is it overpowered and unbeatable? No.
You can beat it by churning out a sufficiently nasty and overpowered build, but that's hardly evidence of it not being excessive in and of itself.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/09 03:38:00
Subject: Re:[Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
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Aside from the game-side of this, I'd look at it from the player side.
What I mean by that is, if you're up for a fun game with friends, then you should stick to those. If you want to play tournaments and hard lists and power gamers then that's what you should look for.
I think the sportsman part of it is just knowing what you're up for playing with, and against, and going from there. As stated in the thread, anything in the game can be countered with the right units or right list. It's a question of "did you bring that?"
In other words, and I'm not using this example to criticize, if you show up with a thousand points of everything you own, and you're just starting, and you play against someone who brought a total death star list, I'd expect to get pounded. Sometimes I look at new gamers and see the armies they're put up against and it boggles me a bit because there's no way in hell they have a chance of winning. The first time I bought a marine list against grey nights, every single person in that GW looked at me, looked at my army and shook their heads-I didn't figure out why till turn 3.
Again, I'm not sure what your local mix is, but I'd look into basement gaming if possible. You're with people you know, you can sort of hash out what you want to do, and then you can just have fun if thats what you want.
Showing up to the LGS for a random game is like a box of chocolates...chocolates that may only be there to kill you and eat your eyes for ju-jubes.
-SCP
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Check out my 40k YouTube blog!!!-https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTF7TxUNENP_f8B4OHrKrcA |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/09 04:34:05
Subject: Re:[Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Screaming Shining Spear
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Shadow Captain Proteus wrote:Aside from the game-side of this, I'd look at it from the player side.
What I mean by that is, if you're up for a fun game with friends, then you should stick to those. If you want to play tournaments and hard lists and power gamers then that's what you should look for.
I think the sportsman part of it is just knowing what you're up for playing with, and against, and going from there. As stated in the thread, anything in the game can be countered with the right units or right list. It's a question of "did you bring that?"
In other words, and I'm not using this example to criticize, if you show up with a thousand points of everything you own, and you're just starting, and you play against someone who brought a total death star list, I'd expect to get pounded. Sometimes I look at new gamers and see the armies they're put up against and it boggles me a bit because there's no way in hell they have a chance of winning. The first time I bought a marine list against grey nights, every single person in that GW looked at me, looked at my army and shook their heads-I didn't figure out why till turn 3.
Again, I'm not sure what your local mix is, but I'd look into basement gaming if possible. You're with people you know, you can sort of hash out what you want to do, and then you can just have fun if thats what you want.
Showing up to the LGS for a random game is like a box of chocolates...chocolates that may only be there to kill you and eat your eyes for ju-jubes.
-SCP
Exalted for truth.
Also to changemod, in order:
1. Formations are the future. There's no use complaining about what was already obvious to people with a keen enough eye. Also, Space Marines have their own Formation-of-formations. Happy now?
2. "free buffs it hands out like candy" You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of a unit tax. It doesn't have to be a bad unit to be a tax.
3. Durability isn't everything. Objectives are. And the Decurion makes you give up Objective Secured...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/09 04:34:30
~3000 (Fully Painted)
Coming Soon!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/09 04:42:17
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Norn Queen
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The thing with nids is MC is mostly what we have. Bringing 3 MC isn't being unsportsman when it's 1/2 your units.
3 Dakka fex is a lot of Dakka, but OOE is crap and he only had one synapse unit in there. He sort of set himself up to be screwed by instinctive behavior.
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These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/09 06:21:30
Subject: Re:[Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Violent Space Marine Dedicated to Khorne
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Shadow Captain Proteus wrote:Aside from the game-side of this, I'd look at it from the player side.
What I mean by that is, if you're up for a fun game with friends, then you should stick to those. If you want to play tournaments and hard lists and power gamers then that's what you should look for.
I think the sportsman part of it is just knowing what you're up for playing with, and against, and going from there. As stated in the thread, anything in the game can be countered with the right units or right list. It's a question of "did you bring that?"
In other words, and I'm not using this example to criticize, if you show up with a thousand points of everything you own, and you're just starting, and you play against someone who brought a total death star list, I'd expect to get pounded. Sometimes I look at new gamers and see the armies they're put up against and it boggles me a bit because there's no way in hell they have a chance of winning. The first time I bought a marine list against grey nights, every single person in that GW looked at me, looked at my army and shook their heads-I didn't figure out why till turn 3.
Again, I'm not sure what your local mix is, but I'd look into basement gaming if possible. You're with people you know, you can sort of hash out what you want to do, and then you can just have fun if thats what you want.
Showing up to the LGS for a random game is like a box of chocolates...chocolates that may only be there to kill you and eat your eyes for ju-jubes.
-SCP
Well it was supposed to be a "beer and pretzels" basement game with fun for both. Well atleast my definition of fun is heavy casualties on both sides. To make sure that he was able to kill I chose not to use any res-orbs, decurion, master technomancer, ghost arks+warrior blob. But looks like i crippled myself too much. I gave up my biggest advantage that is resilience and didn´t have the firepower to compensate.
changemod wrote:Oh no, the Decurion absolutely is overpowered by it's very definition: You get the detachment bonuses for your formations already, then on top of that it hands out a free upgrade to every unit worth at least 30 points. I'd go so far as to say that it's as much a breach of etiquette to take without prior arrangement as a superheavy is.
I've not lost a single game since the new codex came out as is without needing to dip into it.
Have you considered that you are just good?  No serious, if all the other armies catch up with their own detachments i don´t hink it will be ~that OP~ anymore. For my part I´ll always tell atleast if i bring a CAD or decurion.
Lance845 wrote:The thing with nids is MC is mostly what we have. Bringing 3 MC isn't being unsportsman when it's 1/2 your units.
3 Dakka fex is a lot of Dakka, but OOE is crap and he only had one synapse unit in there. He sort of set himself up to be screwed by instinctive behavior.
I didn´t look at it from that side. But let´s face it if I would bring an AV14 Wall I would drop my opponent a subtile hint to take some ~big guns~ atleast. Sure through all the auto-wounding gauss and gak you can glance/wound everything to death - but with just 5-10 immortals you don´t easily gauss a carnifex to death. Especially if the immortals fall like flies because you gave up your resilience.
Of course I tried to exploit his weak synapse. But then again the dice were not on my side and the bombs missed... twice  nothing you can do about that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/09 06:22:31
stealth992 wrote:...
Or you can just keep buying chaos everything, and not play them. Just sit alone in your room for years, painting and detailing, and detailing some more. Then keep doing that for years until you own upwards of 10000 points of chaos. Keep shining their swords and sharpening their knives. Then some day, some wonderful day, when a new book comes out that will realize your armies' potential, come out from hiding. Everyone will have thought you had left warhammer 40k for good, but no, you had been training, preparing, and brooding for this moment. Return with such vengeance and hatred that you will not hold back, and you will destroy everything in your path. Like a true chaos crusade, wait for the right moment, then burst forth from the Eye of Terror and unleash your pain on the whole universe. And when they cry and complain that you are OP and that it's not fair. Reassure them that it's true. It isn't fair, but it's what they DESERVE. All of them, each and every one of them deserve to be obliterated into oblivion. And if they ask you to play with a fluffy army, tell them you will do so. But on game day bring the meanest nastiest, ugliest army you can. Give them no opportunity for victory, give them no opportunity for enjoyment. Your only goal is to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible. And when they cry, and they will cry, laugh at them, drink their salty tears, and bath in their sweet, sweet blood.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/11 16:24:29
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Dakka Veteran
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Well yeah your list is worse but only because it can't accomplish anything. It has to little of an edge in any given area. His list is bad yours is too but you did it on purpose Automatically Appended Next Post: changemod wrote: TheNewBlood wrote:Have you seen the new Skitarii/Mechanicus formation that gives all the units free upgrades and relics? I wounder what you would make of that.
Similar idea. There's an Eldar one too.
More than one army having auto-broken setups doesn't mean it's suddenly polite to take one without prior arrangement so your opponent knows to break out the excessive stuff too.
Yes, the Decurion is quite powerful. But it puts severe restrictions on how flexible your army construction can be
Which isn't a practical hinderance to power. I would agree that the Decurion is quite poor from a fluffy list building perspective, but that's not particularly relevant to the free buffs it hands out like candy.
And because of GW's release schedule, people haven't yet found out good ways to counter Necrons on the tabletop yet.
There won't be a hard counter to Necrons as a whole, durability as a whole is phenomenal and there's not really a gaping tactical flaw some unit or other can't cover.
Is the Decurion strong to the point of not being particularly friendly? Probably. Is it overpowered and unbeatable? No.
You can beat it by churning out a sufficiently nasty and overpowered build, but that's hardly evidence of it not being excessive in and of itself.
prior arrangement? Is this a joke?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/11 16:32:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/11 16:55:41
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Well for an obvious example, say you took a 5 Imperial Knight 2000 point list. It's a perfectly legal within the rules thing to do, not even unbound, and it is theoretically beatable.
But it's also something against which an opponent who didn't know it was coming would find themselves at a tremendous disadvantage. Only dedicated anti-tank weaponry would be of any use, and how often would you expect someone to take enough to deal with more than say, two land raiders or one Knight?
Extreme case? Absolutely, but it makes the point: Taking a detachment that gives a significant advantage over standard detachments without alerting your opponent in a timely manner that they can choose to do the same or otherwise compensate is the height of poor etiquette.
Honestly, the community still treats Forge World as an etiquette issue, but a little unfamiliarity in a game with hundreds of units is a much smaller issue than the game warping impact of super-detachments and the majority of Superheavies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/12 10:40:40
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Moscow, Russia
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Space Marines are about to get their own OMFG Decurion,
Pretty much everyone is.
So just wait.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/12 13:34:33
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Alcibiades wrote:Space Marines are about to get their own OMFG Decurion,
Pretty much everyone is.
So just wait. 
Why would that be relevant? The distinction is whether one player is using the Decurion style detachment and the other isn't, not how many armies have access to those detachments.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/13 02:25:33
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Probably because once everyone has those kinds of detachments asking your opponent whether it'd be alright to play one will be a moot point.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/13 03:18:21
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Dakka Veteran
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changemod wrote:
Well for an obvious example, say you took a 5 Imperial Knight 2000 point list. It's a perfectly legal within the rules thing to do, not even unbound, and it is theoretically beatable.
But it's also something against which an opponent who didn't know it was coming would find themselves at a tremendous disadvantage. Only dedicated anti-tank weaponry would be of any use, and how often would you expect someone to take enough to deal with more than say, two land raiders or one Knight?
Extreme case? Absolutely, but it makes the point: Taking a detachment that gives a significant advantage over standard detachments without alerting your opponent in a timely manner that they can choose to do the same or otherwise compensate is the height of poor etiquette.
Honestly, the community still treats Forge World as an etiquette issue, but a little unfamiliarity in a game with hundreds of units is a much smaller issue than the game warping impact of super-detachments and the majority of Superheavies.
Even in your extreme case I disagree. If you can't beat that list you got outplayed during the list building part of the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
changemod wrote:
Well for an obvious example, say you took a 5 Imperial Knight 2000 point list. It's a perfectly legal within the rules thing to do, not even unbound, and it is theoretically beatable.
But it's also something against which an opponent who didn't know it was coming would find themselves at a tremendous disadvantage. Only dedicated anti-tank weaponry would be of any use, and how often would you expect someone to take enough to deal with more than say, two land raiders or one Knight?
Extreme case? Absolutely, but it makes the point: Taking a detachment that gives a significant advantage over standard detachments without alerting your opponent in a timely manner that they can choose to do the same or otherwise compensate is the height of poor etiquette.
Honestly, the community still treats Forge World as an etiquette issue, but a little unfamiliarity in a game with hundreds of units is a much smaller issue than the game warping impact of super-detachments and the majority of Superheavies.
The decurion is nowhere near as strong as 2 farseers 36 bikes and two wraithknights and those are CAD's. The new Marine book is stronger than the necrons too and it was mostly marine players bitching. I playing Marines, Tau, and Necron and am undefeated with all 3. Neither is really much better than the other. Necrons are just the easiest to play well. Marines are harder to play well but they were one of the top three armies in my opinion before this new book which is much stronger than it was. Necron are the weakest of the three, between the new marines book, eldar and necron. Tau are about equal with necron. This is my experience at least. While being the weakest of the three it takes less in game critical thinking or turn pre planning to .
I have never tabled someone with necron but have tabled people with Tau and Marines many times Automatically Appended Next Post: On topic though you let your opponent see your list, and were basically giving him a super easy game, and when he won you got upset? Don't be. Now you have an excuse to play better stuff since he did so well this time and he can;t get butt hurt.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/06/13 03:26:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/13 04:37:26
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Freaky Flayed One
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I suspect Necrons will rapidly lose their power if the next batch of codexes follow this trend.
Necrons are individually durable, that's their shtick. They do not have a big damage output.
Now you have Eldar, Mechanicum, and Space Marines which have both of high damage, decent durability, and loads of cheap or free units (Which translate into more targets, and thus more durability and firepower).
That people are complaining about Necrons when 2 of the next codexes have Apoc Blasts at Strength 10 or with Fleshbane/Haywire, cheap Assault 4 S6, D-Weapons, and etc. is beyond me. The Mechanicum are the most finnicky of the four due to special rules, but their plethora of "AP2 / 2-3 wounds" stuff and now mass Torsion/Gravity weapons PLUS their pretty awesome Canticles and etc. are extremely impressive. This is to say nothing of the Necrons having NO psychic phase - no witchfires, no invisibility, no iron arm, etc. and not having two-thirds of the armies in the game be potential allies.
The fact is both your lists sucked, you got outplayed, and now you're being a very poor sport. Please stop complaining.
To clarify:
I'm not saying the other codexes are OP. Well, perhaps Eldar. Mechanicum is great fun though and I'll withhold judgement on Marines until the official release and playing a few matches, but they look pretty fun and the change of pace is exciting - though I still think centbikes with gravity weapons need to be shot into the sun.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/06/13 04:43:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/13 05:56:20
Subject: [Necrons] Trying to be a good sportsman
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Dakka Veteran
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Ferros wrote:I suspect Necrons will rapidly lose their power if the next batch of codexes follow this trend.
Necrons are individually durable, that's their shtick. They do not have a big damage output.
Now you have Eldar, Mechanicum, and Space Marines which have both of high damage, decent durability, and loads of cheap or free units (Which translate into more targets, and thus more durability and firepower).
That people are complaining about Necrons when 2 of the next codexes have Apoc Blasts at Strength 10 or with Fleshbane/Haywire, cheap Assault 4 S6, D-Weapons, and etc. is beyond me. The Mechanicum are the most finnicky of the four due to special rules, but their plethora of "AP2 / 2-3 wounds" stuff and now mass Torsion/Gravity weapons PLUS their pretty awesome Canticles and etc. are extremely impressive. This is to say nothing of the Necrons having NO psychic phase - no witchfires, no invisibility, no iron arm, etc. and not having two-thirds of the armies in the game be potential allies.
The fact is both your lists sucked, you got outplayed, and now you're being a very poor sport. Please stop complaining.
To clarify:
I'm not saying the other codexes are OP. Well, perhaps Eldar. Mechanicum is great fun though and I'll withhold judgement on Marines until the official release and playing a few matches, but they look pretty fun and the change of pace is exciting - though I still think centbikes with gravity weapons need to be shot into the sun.
My friend picked his up this morning so I'm assuming they're out
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