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Hey guys, I was just wondering what you guys think of GWs new kits with multiple different unit bundles new price. They used to be well worth it as they would be much cheaper than buying the individual models, but now if you look at the new space marine bundles and most notably the new battle forces they are just as much as buying the models individually, what's the incentive in buying the bundle now? The old battleforce was cheaper and had waay more stuff, now for $100 you get a tac squad, a dreadnought, and a captain. Any thoughts on why they're doing this?

The buy-more-kits online 'deals' save you nothing. They are just more kits for a bigger price.
So, adding savings to a Battleforce is going against this idea.
The point of a battleforce was to get people an army quickly, and they trusted that it would be a good choice of models. Usually this was not correct, and a unit was effectively free, but of little use.
If a box gets you the models you want, and at a smaller price than buying them separately, do it. Otherwise, avoid.
Sometimes though, it is the only way to get a certain model.

Its a bit of a revisit to their one click deals. So yeah, no point really, its kinda silly. When they first started doing them, some of their one click deals were thematic; based off a battle report or display in a bit white dwarf. So if you wanted to recreate that army specifically it was all grouped there. Was a bit random even then, don't know how many people want to recreate another's army.

Perhaps the new idea is that you'll be enticed by having to click less if you just so happen to want what they group up.

It's so Little Timmy can ask for just 1 thing for his birthday. It just happens to be 6 boxes of models...

One click, zero savings. The web exclusive bundles are just advertising gimmicks. If it has it’s own box, there are often savings to be had. The trick is to price out all the parts individually, see what you want/need, and check to see if it’s still a bargain. I can’t sat that the new ones strike me as particularly good, but IIRC someone did the math, and you save ~15%. One perk with the boxes is that you should be able to get them from your FLGS a/o discounter for more savings on top of that.

The SM Battleforce is priced at £60
It includes:
Captain: £18
Tacticals: £25
Dreadnought: £28
Total: £71

So, buying the box saves you £11. This is enough to buy a chapter upgrade kit, or half-way to another squad.

 Skinnereal wrote:
The SM Battleforce is priced at £60
It includes:
Captain: £18
Tacticals: £25
Dreadnought: £28
Total: £71

So, buying the box saves you £11. This is enough to buy a chapter upgrade kit, or half-way to another squad.

My big problem with that box is the captain. $30 for a mono-pose captain with a bad wargear array. He also tanks the ability to buy multiples of that box, as how many of him do you need? I swear he exists only to add perceived value to bundles. He shows up in the larger strikeforce as well.

It's still a far cry from the battleforces we used to have, though, which were not only cheaper but actually gave you a more meaningful start to an army. These new Marine ones still save you some money, but the contents just look pathetic.

 Sidstyler wrote:
It's still a far cry from the battleforces we used to have, though, which were not only cheaper but actually gave you a more meaningful start to an army. These new Marine ones still save you some money, but the contents just look pathetic.

The DA one really set this off for me.

The new one is, for $100
3 RW knights
1 attack bike
1 land speeder
1 ravenwing accessory sprue

The old one was, for $115 IIRC
6 regular bikes
1 attack bike
1 land speeder
3 ravenwing accessory sprues

Sure, the knight bikes are cool and full of bits and details. But the old one was a much better value. Also more universal, as the bikes were generic, as long as you didn’t glue on bits from the RW sprues (some of which were useful.)

Ugh, this is disgusting.
From what you guys are listing, it sounds like we're getting half the stuff we used to for double the price :(

Sometimes I really wish I had some serious cash and could buy out GW to get the hobby back where it should be.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
It's still a far cry from the battleforces we used to have, though, which were not only cheaper but actually gave you a more meaningful start to an army. These new Marine ones still save you some money, but the contents just look pathetic.

Sure, the knight bikes are cool and full of bits and details. But the old one was a much better value. Also more universal, as the bikes were generic, as long as you didn’t glue on bits from the RW sprues (some of which were useful.)

Which is why they switched out the "generic bikes" with the Ravenwing Knights/Ravenwing Command Squad.

They don't WANT "generic" armies being able to buy the boxes for each faction and get a good deal.

kaotkbliss wrote:
Ugh, this is disgusting.
From what you guys are listing, it sounds like we're getting half the stuff we used to for double the price :(

Sometimes I really wish I had some serious cash and could buy out GW to get the hobby back where it should be.

Yes and no. If the old DA battleforce were still being sold, it would probably have received a price adjustment. Inflation take some of the edge off nostalgia. There were generally more/better deals in the old days though. But there were some lemons in the old boxes as well.

IIRC the old marine force was:
15 tac marines (one real box, one CS)
rhino
5 assault marines
5 bolter scouts

At the time it was out, bolter scouts and AM were considered garbage, people preferred razorbacks to rhinos, and you didn’t get enough weapons to make the tacs useful. Plus you needed to either add a HQ or kitbash one to make a playable force out of the box. So you might have got more bodies for your buck, but a chunk of them were “meh” and when the razorback kit was much better then the rhino one, you always felt kinda robbed just picking up a pure rhino.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Which is why they switched out the "generic bikes" with the Ravenwing Knights/Ravenwing Command Squad.

They don't WANT "generic" armies being able to buy the boxes for each faction and get a good deal.

Their loss. I would not have added a bike element to my Ultramarines without the old DA battleforce. And who knows how many they sold to people building White Scars armies who might not have done so picking things up individually.

But that’s GW and their crazy selling philosophy. One should not get deals on “premium” products, it cheapens them.

But that’s me just waxing bitter. There are a number of good deals you can still get from GW. You just need to work at finding them.

 Nevelon wrote:
My big problem with that box is the captain. $30 for a mono-pose captain with a bad wargear array. He also tanks the ability to buy multiples of that box, as how many of him do you need? I swear he exists only to add perceived value to bundles. He shows up in the larger strikeforce as well.

Ugh, yeah. I'd thought he was the old 2-sprue box. He's £4 cheaper, and far better.
Nope, single character, with an alternate head.

So, the BF is £7 cheaper, but has a cacky HQ option. Buy separate.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Which is why they switched out the "generic bikes" with the Ravenwing Knights/Ravenwing Command Squad.

They don't WANT "generic" armies being able to buy the boxes for each faction and get a good deal.

Their loss. I would not have added a bike element to my Ultramarines without the old DA battleforce. And who knows how many they sold to people building White Scars armies who might not have done so picking things up individually.

But that’s GW and their crazy selling philosophy. One should not get deals on “premium” products, it cheapens them.

Their "crazy selling philosophy" is that you shouldn't be able to build an entire army using 'just' the starting purchases you make.

Why do you think that the Dark Angels Tacticals in Dark Vengeance have iconography slathered all over them?

 Nevelon wrote:


Yes and no. If the old DA battleforce were still being sold, it would probably have received a price adjustment. Inflation take some of the edge off nostalgia. There were generally more/better deals in the old days though. But there were some lemons in the old boxes as well.

IIRC the old marine force was:
15 tac marines (one real box, one CS)
rhino
5 assault marines
5 bolter scouts

At the time it was out, bolter scouts and AM were considered garbage, people preferred razorbacks to rhinos, and you didn’t get enough weapons to make the tacs useful. Plus you needed to either add a HQ or kitbash one to make a playable force out of the box. So you might have got more bodies for your buck, but a chunk of them were “meh” and when the razorback kit was much better then the rhino one, you always felt kinda robbed just picking up a pure rhino.

The box I picked up was the SW one with 3 bikes, a rhino and 2 squads of 10 and I think it was only $40-$50 at that time and had plenty of options. Sure you could get a razorback and leave the turret unglued to switch it out to a rhino if wanted, but you could also just hit ebay and grab razorback turrets to switch the rhino if wanted.
Yeah, I needed an HQ, but I also needed a new copy of the rules at the time and so picked up Battle for McCragge (or however it was spelled) so I had plenty to work with for converting myself an HQ. I had also picked up the WHFB box set and the 3 of them together I think came to around $160-$170 (*edit* after taxes) so was a really good purchase.

Even if I had the money now, I don't think I would pick up any of the current battleforce sets because I don't feel I'm getting my money's worth out of them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Their "crazy selling philosophy" is that you shouldn't be able to build an entire army using 'just' the starting purchases you make.

Why do you think that the Dark Angels Tacticals in Dark Vengeance have iconography slathered all over them?

Which is better, getting more people into the hobby in a wider range of armies with a generic starter (like AoBR) but allowing people to use it to bulk up their forces cheaply, or only give some people a deal (DV) and have more people pay full price, but also potentially turning away people who look at the starter, not like the contents, and pass on the game entirely? Obviously we know which path GW took. One might assume the bean counters over there know what they are doing. There are enough threads on GW’s financials that there is some doubt on that point.

But to try to keep this on the topic of the battleforces specifically:

Is the BA captain just the multi-part captain with a few bits from the BA tac squad splashed in? I recognize some, but not all of the parts. If that’s the case, it’s not a bad box overall. The multi-part captain, while a little dated, is a nice kit, packed full of options.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Their "crazy selling philosophy" is that you shouldn't be able to build an entire army using 'just' the starting purchases you make.

Why do you think that the Dark Angels Tacticals in Dark Vengeance have iconography slathered all over them?

Which is better, getting more people into the hobby in a wider range of armies with a generic starter (like AoBR) but allowing people to use it to bulk up their forces cheaply,

But that's the thing. They don't WANT people buying "a generic starter" so that they can bulk up their forces. That's what the individual boxed sets, blisters/clampacks, and battleforces are there for.

or only give some people a deal (DV) and have more people pay full price, but also potentially turning away people who look at the starter, not like the contents, and pass on the game entirely? Obviously we know which path GW took. One might assume the bean counters over there know what they are doing. There are enough threads on GW’s financials that there is some doubt on that point.

And yet, they also did Stormclaw and Deathstorm--both of which apparently sold fairly well.

Would I like to see more varied boxed sets? Hell yes. I've argued for YEARS that they should have been doing "Campaign Boxes" tied in with narrative scenario books.

Admittedly my argument was for armies outside of Space Marines as the baddies; but hey. Baby steps.

But to try to keep this on the topic of the battleforces specifically:

Is the BA captain just the multi-part captain with a few bits from the BA tac squad splashed in? I recognize some, but not all of the parts. If that’s the case, it’s not a bad box overall. The multi-part captain, while a little dated, is a nice kit, packed full of options.

That's exactly what it looks like.