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The biggest problem is the internal balance in AM, particularly our weak elites and fast attack. Here are my modest buffs and nerfs to improve internal balance.

HQ
- Bump priests to 35 points
- Enginseers can repair vehicles within 6", not base to base contact
- Lord Commissar drops to 50 points
- Commissars are 0-5, not 1 per PCS/CCS. It's For Your Own Good resolves before the perils of the warp (you lose the model but it doesn't harm the unit)
- Primaris Psykers gain access to wargear
- CCS, all models gain Look Out Argh'!

Troops
- HWS drop to 30 points and may purchase a vox, camo, snare mines
- Missile launchers come with flakk missiles
- SWS may take dedicated transports
- PCS gain the combined squads special rule (may join your blob squads)
- Conscripts may be purchased as troops choices independent of platoons
- Chimeras lose lasgun arrays
- Taurox gets a better model
- Veterans bump to 65 points

Elites
- Wyrdvanes, when manifesting powers you may change one failed warp charge roll to a '6' so they're more reliably casting, but also suffering way more perils of the warp
- Scion Tempestors gain voice of command
- Ogryns of every type drop 5 points
- Ratling sniper rifles have Ap 5 default

Fast Attack:
- Cavalry grant +1 Toughness, rough riders gain WS4
- Valkyrie may purchase hellfury missiles or missile pods
- Vendetta drops to 150 points
- Hunterkiller and hellstrike missiles gain armorbane, lose ordnance
- Scout Sentinels increase cost by 5 points, gain camo netting
- Hellhound variants drop cost by 10 points

Heavy Support
- Change Wyvern to two large blasts (remove twin linked, remove shred)
- Increase range of demolisher cannon to 30"
- All Leman Russ variants gain 11 rear AV
- Basilisk reduces cover saves by 1
- Deathstrike gains Strength D

 Ustis wrote:
Why do you want chimeras to lose lasgun arrays?
I seriously doubt they would bring out a new model, and the arrays have always been in the novels/fluff.

Because they're a marginal weapon that adds almost nothing to the chimera's firepower. It's just extra, pointless rules that I always have to explain to my opponents: "yeah they fire at full BS, even though I moved 12" but they're at BS3 not BS4 like the veterans inside. Yeah I already fired two weapons from the hatch, these are extra, and can fire at other people. But they can't overwatch. Now that I've explained that...they're shooting at your Space Marines...ok they did no damage, nevermind."

 Blacksails wrote:

 vipoid wrote:


I'm aware of that - but that doesn't help if I want a shooting focus.

Oh, I agree. I'd love for a variant with a bunch of carbines and an extra special weapon slot.

Extra bonus to make them vets with BS4.

*Drool*

Or make them a doctrine upgrade that you apply to veterans.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I've also yet to see a formation taken because "well it's fluffy!". It's always "I can spam more of X" or "I get this *insane* ability for using Y formation" or "I don't have to pay for upgrades with Z formation".

If they at least had some hefty points costs attached to them, one could accept them. But the whole free abilities and/or wargear for zero points is absolutely absurd and inherently massively unbalanced.

No kidding. I ran the assassins execution force formation just for funsies in an apoc game. It's not one of the more powerful formations, but it is hilariously unfluffy. Nothing more fluffy than the Officio Assassinorum throwing up their hands and saying "whelp, this guy's gotta go. We could put together a carefully thought out plan, or we could just send a bunch of random assassins after him and see what happens. Because nothing says meticulous specialization and discretion like throwing the kitchen sink at a problem."

I liked the old Cityfight rule that made ordnance weapons -1 to cover saves and Strength 9+ ordnance was -2 to cover saves. So the basilisk was -2 on cover saves, which made it incredibly deadly.

 AtoMaki wrote:
Random crazy idea about the Basilisk: instead of dropping its price or anything, what about making its shot use the Apocalyptic Mega-Blast template (the 12" three-in-one blast)? The inner blast is S9 AP3 as normal, the middle blast is S6 AP5, and the outer blast is S3 AP-. The ultimate artillery piece or 'Nice Green Tide You Have There'.

Two very simple fixes, taken from the original Cityfight book, that would remedy the Leman Russ ordnance issues, these should apply to all armies:

- Ordnance, these weapons hit with such massive force that they shatter trees and trenches alike, all cover saves against ordnance weapons -1 to their dice roll.

- Earthshaker ordnance, the bone-rattling impact of artillery and demolisher shells rips through buildings and bone like paper. Cover saves suffer an additional -1 to their dice rolls when rolling for wounds taken from ordnance weapons that are strength 9 or 10. This is cumulative with the -1 from the ordnance special rule.

Now you can actually use the demolisher and basilisk for their intended purposes, laying siege to entrenched infantry and vehicles.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
Random crazy idea about the Basilisk: instead of dropping its price or anything, what about making its shot use the Apocalyptic Mega-Blast template (the 12" three-in-one blast)? The inner blast is S9 AP3 as normal, the middle blast is S6 AP5, and the outer blast is S3 AP-. The ultimate artillery piece or 'Nice Green Tide You Have There'.

Two very simple fixes, taken from the original Cityfight book, that would remedy the Leman Russ ordnance issues, these should apply to all armies:

- Ordnance, these weapons hit with such massive force that they shatter trees and trenches alike, all cover saves against ordnance weapons -1 to their dice roll.

- Earthshaker ordnance, the bone-rattling impact of artillery and demolisher shells rips through buildings and bone like paper. Cover saves suffer an additional -1 to their dice rolls when rolling for wounds taken from ordnance weapons that are strength 9 or 10. This is cumulative with the -1 from the ordnance special rule.

Now you can actually use the demolisher and basilisk for their intended purposes, laying siege to entrenched infantry and vehicles.

Now you see the problem with this is that other armies also utilise the Demolisher Cannon and the Battlecannon meaning that GW would also have to go and re-write a lot of other things.... Unless they made it an Imperial Guard specific thing like a form of specialist shells or representing the expertise of the gunners.
Combining this with the LB rule and the Leman Russ would finally enter the path to competitiveness again.

I don't see that as a particularly big problem. Ordnance weapons as a whole are massively underutilized, and large blast weapons are not often used. From a gameplay perspective, and real-world perspective, the role of blast weapons is to clear enemies out of cover. But currently it is much more effective to shoot machine guns at targets in cover, that's the opposite of the real world where machine guns decimate targets in the open and artillery is used to destroy cover. IG have the most ordnance out of every army, but there's nothing wrong with a slight buff to vindicators and defiler battle cannons, especially since it would open up new tactical options where players are faced with a legitimate choice between rapid fire and large blast.

2d6 and pick the highest for armor pen is not enough to offset that it forces vehicles to snap shoot everything else. Multi-shot weapons stack much more effectively with psychic powers and other special rules.

Our elites section needs all kinds of work.

I think the obvious fix to ogryns would be a cost reduction and a stronger focus on specific battlefield roles. I.e. instead of being a sorta close combat, sorta bubble wrap you double down on one.

Ogryns drop to 30 points per model, lose hammer of wrath, gain carapace armor, and are bulky not very bulky. Now you can squeeze 5 + an IC into a chimera. Give them ripper pistols and CCW, now they're a decent mobile close assault force with moderate survivability and 4 S5 attacks per model.

Bullgryns lose their grenadier gauntlets. They now have slab shields and power mauls at 40 points per model. Grenadier gauntlets are mostly useless and brute shields are mostly useless. Now bullgryns are a much more effective counter-assault, defensive force.

Scions is an easy fix. Special rule change, clarion vox net: scion units equipped with a vox may receive orders issued from any range as long as the ordering unit is also equipped with a vox or is embarked on a command vehicle. Now FRF with hellguns is a lot easier to execute, bring it down with BS4 plasma guns is a serious threat when you deep strike, etc.

Ratlings, allow them to be taken 0-1 per platoon, they're now troops (i.e. objective secured).

Wyrdvane psykers, new special rule, for the glory of the Emperor: trained not only in the ways of harnessing the warp, but also indoctrinated into the Imperial Creed, wyrdvanes will not hesitate to sacrifice themselves for the good of mankind. When this unit attempts to cast psychic powers, after you roll the dice, you may re-roll one warp charge die each time you attempt to manifest a power. Every time you opt to re-roll one of the warp dice, this unit suffers one wound.

 Selym wrote:
Had a thought. In addition to improving orders, they should have this:

-Orders may be given to any unit within 6" and LoS of the officer.
-Vox casters are free
-If the officer's unit has a vox, he may order another unit with a vox within 12", regardless of LoS.
-That unit may pass the order to another unit with a vox within 12", regardless of LoS at no penalty. Repeat ad infinitum until the desired unit has the order.

I don't think the issue with orders is that they're too unreliable or there are too few that we are able to issue in a given turn. The problem is that the units that would most benefit from orders are very uncompetitive and low leadership (special weapons teams, heavy weapons teams, ratlings) or unlikely to be within range of a command squad (scions). The fact that veterans and blobs are really the only viable infantry options limits the effectiveness of orders. If we could field reasonably priced HWS then orders would be much more potent, if SWS could take transports then we could deploy them forward and issue orders from command chimeras. If ratlings could take a vox then they'd be pretty darn good (4+ re-roll against MCs, ignores cover against infantry)

Firing into CC should be a special rule for conscripts (who should be renamed "penal legion"). It shouldn't be a universal IG rule.

It should be a universal rule when targeting gargantuan creatures, perhaps with you rolling at -1 BS.

IC commissars would be a great change.

 vipoid wrote:
As a question, what 'real' HQ choices would you like to see?

Honestly curious here, as I'm far from an expert on IG fluff, so I don't know what else they could add.

I'll pick up the question, because I think it's an interesting one. This is one of the problems that commissars have always had, they were strictly limited by the number of CCS and PCS squads that you took. This prevents you from choosing between offensive order buffs and defensive morale buffs, instead you need to take CCS/PCS before you can take commissars, so rather than a tactical choice it's an extra tax/expense just to get commissars. Even if you take a Lord Commissar, your # of commissars is still strictly limited and the units they're allowed to join is also limited.

The tank commander was a good idea, but it was done halfway. Several factions in the game have HQ choices that really bring flavor to the army and open up other tactical options and IG should have the same sort of thing to reflect the vast variety of IG regiments throughout the galaxy a la the old regimental doctrines system. While IG are not known to be flexible within a particular army, they are varied throughout the galaxy.

Command Squads (traditional structure): bring orders, synergize with infantry through buffs.

Tank Commanders (armored corps/mech): enable players to take tanks and sentinels as troops and/or issue orders to vehicles

Lord Commissar (commissariat detachment): allows IC commissars, each one has aura of discipline and summary executes units within 6" that fail leadership. Make infantry much more implacable and disciplined.

Tempestor Prime Command Squad (Tempestus detachment): allow Scions as troop choices, also no ridiculously overpriced book with 5 units.

Some or all of these would really allow IG commanders to field more tactically varied armies without going to the allies table.

Honestly I'd be ok with Russes going to 14/12/11. Thirteen side armor is sweet but that 10 rear armor is awful when an unstoppable marine drop pod just drops out a squad that glances it to death.

Marines have the same chances of glancing that Russ as they have for killing another marine (1/9).

 Selym wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I am of a mind that vox should grant +1 Ld and double shots with all weapon if not moving.

Simple and effective.

I'm just imagining a Guardsman being like:

"do we shoot the alien? I'm not sure..."

*carnifex charging*

"Herrmmm...."

*listens to the vox*

"Oh, alright."

*Dakkadakkadakka*

Yes, as we all know, real world militaries never use orders or radios.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Cadian shock troopers. Trained from birth to be a soldier. Only hits 50% of the time and has a roughly 30% chance of failing to understand their orders.

That's only 125,000 times more accurate than the actual U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/10/gao-u-s-has-fired-250000-rounds-for-every-insurgent-killed/

As for orders, turns out that war is loud, scary, and confusing. The radio man has to hear the command over the din of war, the sergeant has to hear the radio man over the gun fire, and the squad has to hear the sergeant. It's not a matter of them failing 30% of the time. The issue is do they receive and act on the order in a timely way, are they under threat from another target, etc.

 Ignatius wrote:

 TheSilo wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Cadian shock troopers. Trained from birth to be a soldier. Only hits 50% of the time and has a roughly 30% chance of failing to understand their orders.

That's only 125,000 times more accurate than the actual U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://jonathanturley.org/2011/01/10/gao-u-s-has-fired-250000-rounds-for-every-insurgent-killed/

As for orders, turns out that war is loud, scary, and confusing. The radio man has to hear the command over the din of war, the sergeant has to hear the radio man over the gun fire, and the squad has to hear the sergeant. It's not a matter of them failing 30% of the time. The issue is do they receive and act on the order in a timely way, are they under threat from another target, etc.

Surely the tabletop is not a literal translation of the events playing out?

While that's a funny statistic, it's mostly meaningless. Most engagements occur at an average distance of 300+m. Entire squads of Platoons are equipped with the sole purpose of suppressive fire with M240's, which fire thousands of rounds combined per minute. Then add in that 95% of all U.S. Army infantry qualify with an M16 and 20% of them qualify expert (36/40) hits.

Still funny though.

That's my point.