Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So get this, linebreaker bombardment? If you have 3 vindicators in a unit fire at the same time you can instead drop an ignores cover apocalyptic blast?

I mean, D shots are one thing, but now we're just dropping pie plates with ignores cover out there? What is happening to this game? Am I overreacting to mother fething apocalyptic blasts? Is the rumor I'm reading a lie? I mean, this will definitely make me buy a third vindi....


I hope yall like pie!

It's probably an overreaction. If even one tank can't shoot you lose the giant blast. You don't even have to destroy a tank, just shake one and since it can't snap fire its blast weapon the special ability is gone for a turn. And once you lose a tank from the squadron (pretty much inevitable with mediocre AV and short range) it's gone forever. And then you have to consider the fact that an IG Stormsword gives you the same no-cover weapon but with AP 1 and no restrictions on how to use it for only ~450 points and throws in a much more durable platform for the gun as a nice bonus, while a Typhon gives you a 7" blast with no restrictions for about the same cost as the Vindicators and if you don't want to pay the IG detachment tax for a Stormsword.

I think my biggest concern is our smaller events that don't allow LOW, I'm picturing someone bringing this to a 1000 point game and just wiping the table in the 3 turns. On a 4x4 table you can't really hide from them that well, and an ignores cover S 10 will wipe out any anti-tank infantry easily, guys like me that rely on dev squads.

It will never go off against a semi savvy player.

If you dont have first, deploy out of range (Still 24 inches, right?)

If you do, shake a single vindi and move one. You just crippled a large point investment.

I don't even consider it a good use of points. As mentioned before, there are already better platforms with similiar shooting in existence, and crippling this one is really, really easy.

As long as it doesn't ignore cover it isn't much of a problem for my IG. There is also invunerable saves or being a flyer. Versus nids, the 360pts kill some bases of swarms and a venomthrope. That is if all fail their cover save.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I think my biggest concern is our smaller events that don't allow LOW, I'm picturing someone bringing this to a 1000 point game and just wiping the table in the 3 turns. On a 4x4 table you can't really hide from them that well, and an ignores cover S 10 will wipe out any anti-tank infantry easily, guys like me that rely on dev squads.

But, again, all you need to do is get one penetrating hit and you have a 5/6 chance to stop the 10" blast for a turn (only an "immobilized" result allows the demolisher cannon to shoot), and killing a single Vindicator stops it permanently. TBH if you can't manage one penetrating hit per turn against AV 13/11 then you didn't bring enough anti-tank units.

Makumba wrote:
As long as it doesn't ignore cover it isn't much of a problem for my IG. There is also invunerable saves or being a flyer. Versus nids, the 360pts kill some bases of swarms and a venomthrope. That is if all fail their cover save.

It ignores cover.

There's a lot of crazy feth that's been added to the game that I don't like or that I like, but will still concede that it was probably a really bad idea to add it in.

However, I like this. I'm not currently maintaining any playable armies that have vindicators and I'm glad that they got some love. It's a really strong ability if it goes off, but it's really hard (I'm almost inclined to think *too* hard) to pull off against anyone who can shake a vindicator (and that is a lot of opponents). Vindicators have long held a special place as fire magnets which eat up shots which would otherwise cripple something else and this ability goes hand-in-hand with that.

There range sucks, though. It's a 10" radius with a 24" radius, lol. Had they buffed it to 48, it might be interesting. But as it is, you have to drive up to the point to where stuff will pummel at least one of the tanks, and you'll lose the buff.

The 10" blast is not really that special, by the way. I mean, it's arguably less useful than the 3 Large blasts that you can independently target, and with vehicles that don't need to remain as 1 unit. But you get Ignore Cover, which is very useful!

But at 24".... Vindicators still suck

This is one of the old Apoc 1st ed formations that they've readded to the game. I've played with it quite a bit. It's a fun, devastating thing when you can get it to go off. *When* being the operative word. As everyone has said, stunning or taking the cannon off a Vindi ain't rocket science. This thing is about to become SMs Distraction Carnifex. Never count on it working, but count on the fact your opponent will vaporize one of the vindis before they do anything else.

The only way to really use this effectively is to hide them in the backfield to roll out to control the middle of the board mid-game. 360pts is fair for one good apoc blast. But if you've gotten off more than one, your opponent is doing something very wrong.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
It will never go off against a semi savvy player.

If you dont have first, deploy out of range (Still 24 inches, right?)

If you do, shake a single vindi and move one. You just crippled a large point investment.

They thought of that - only the firing vindicator has to have line of sight.

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Lord Commissar wrote:
It will never go off against a semi savvy player.

If you dont have first, deploy out of range (Still 24 inches, right?)

If you do, shake a single vindi and move one. You just crippled a large point investment.

They thought of that - only the firing vindicator has to have line of sight.

So deploy out of range of the firing vindi. This doesn't invalidate anything Commissar said.

I suppose if you wanted to get silly, you could try to harden it.

Put them on a Skyshield midtable? Bubble wrap it? Make all 3 invisible? All of the above? Or, go crazy and take a gunline of 5 squads of tri-vindicators, and hope you go first!

Play on a really narrow table so that you'll start in range!

None of them really sound like winning strategies to me But if you happen to own a bunch of vindicators you never use, I guess it's something to goof around with.

It would have been so much better even with 36" range.

If anyone deploys this, its going to be number one target for every anti tank weapon across the board, and then you get eldars man portable D weapons or the various mini and full titans, etc its not as bad as may first look.

Also 3 tanks, there not small so not all may be in cover, they need room and maybe extra costs in infriantry guards to prevent a melts based deep strike attack or close assault.

Reserve them if going second? It's a squadron, right?

Good night, sweet greentide.

Find a way to outflank them, clearly.

Great solution, now you can delay it for 1-3 turns, right. Also, good luck scoring VP when you have 1k pt in reserves.

I wouldn't worry too much about this, except in small games where you don't have too much stuff to begin with. If it's over 1000 points I'll have at least one gun with range over 24'' (an Exorcist) but 1000 and below? Nothing with better range than those Vindicators, and optimal AT range 6''.

But a small game can be imbalanced by a lot of crap. A wraithlord, a fast melee beatstick character, a surprise Land Raider when all you brought was S7...

Since Imperial Knights, I make sure to pack a little extra AV into my lists, and to make sure some of it is mobile enough to get into a flank. As such, I’m not terribly worried about this.

The new vehicle squadrons are neat. They reward people for focusing on one element. But it’s a lot of eggs in one basket. And by fielding a squadron, you restrict yourself to one target a turn, unless you find some way to give them split fire. That’s a pretty harsh restriction considering the points sunk into the unit. For preds and vindis, I don’t think the bonuses outweigh the loss of flexibility. The AA tanks and WWs, I could see. Stalkers in particular look good, as they can target 2 things naturally. And the support tanks are cheap enough that you don’t have a massive chunk of your army dedicated to one fragile trick.