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Hi guys, it's been a while since I've posted on the 40k background threads, and it's nice to be back.


So we are all familiar with the HH novels and their varying flavors and authors. So far, I've only read up to number 7 "Legion". Great story with awesome characters. I know I'm far behind with the multiple entries the series has received, but I haven't had the money or time to get all the books.


But now that summer is here and I have alot more free time, I want to pick up some HH again. I am well aware of the varying levels of quality the books have, but I simply must ask if I should consider skipping the books deemed bad or of less quality and carry on to the next high quality installment.

Would it affect the overall story arc if I skip a couple of books? Or should I stick to them for the sake of the story? If you think I should skip some books, which would you recommend I give the pass to and which ones should I pick up?

Try Graham McNeill's A Thousand Sons. It was the first black library novel to make the The New York Times Best Seller list

Also make sure to read the 3 first books in the Horus Heresy series (Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames)

 Forcemajeure wrote:
Try Graham McNeill's A Thousand Sons. It was the first black library novel to make the The New York Times Best Seller list

Also make sure to read the 3 first books in the Horus Heresy series (Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames)

Yeah I have the first seven books. I've heard alot of good things about Thousand Sons.

I missed that you wrote "up to number 7" and took it like you only had read book nr. 7 sorry

Might help

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651831.page

Stay a easy from the assassin novel by all means. A more inept group could not be found, even if one were to scour for the most brainless snotlings.

A Thousand Sons is good - although it's companion, Prospero Burns, isn't so hot.

The First Heretic, Know No Fear and Betrayer are a good set of three, and remarkably make some of the least likeable characters (The Word Bearers and World Eaters legions and their primarchs) almost.....sympathisable with.

Because they're all entwined, it's hard to skip a few IMO.Got any favorite legion?

A few can be skipped entirely as they add nothing to the story...

battle for the abyss, descent of angels & fallen angels (to a degree), Nemesis could all be skipped over

personally, i would say read them all in order, but then i don't feel the dislike that some people have for books like Battle for the Abyss and some of the others...

i enjoyed Battle for the Abyss for the look into how the bad guys got their massive ships...
i really enjoyed Prospero Burns for the fresh look into the Space Wolves, and because i like Abnett's writing...
i enjoyed Nemesis for the look it gives into the bad guy's assassin...
i enjoyed the two Dark Angels books for revealing some of the backstory of Caliban, and the knightly orders...

everyone has different taste...
personally, there has not been a HH novel that i didn't enjoy reading...
they all have a slice of the HH story that we have not had in detail before...

cheers
jah

Battle for the abyss is worth it just for the descriptions of void warfare. Just grit your teeth through the 'how much do I embody every stereotype of my legion' dialogue. I've read up to Prospero burns but struggled with it. The fact that another 20 years probably won't see the series finished puts me off carrying on as well (and that isn't a glib comment).

I really, really liked Prospero Burns.

I think it's because I tried to listen to the audio book first, then when I started reading it I couldn't get into it. I might try again as it's been a year since I tried.

Betrayer, butcher's nails and brotherhood of the storm are all good but then my two favourite legions are the World Eaters and the White Scars

I really enjoyed the first 5 books as they all followed on from each other. Couldn't get into Battle for the Abyss though.

If you haveen't yet, read The First Heretic. Read the first three about the Luna Wolves, then Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim, A Thousand Sons, and Know No Fear.

At that point, you're more or less caught up with the important parts of the story.

Skippable:
Betrayer. People will tell you this is good, but what this is, is a good short story stretched out to a mediocre novel.
Prospero Burns: Dan Abnett retells The Thirteenth Warrior, but with Space Wolves. It's derivative as all hell, even for 40K, right down to a Space Wolf, a member of a highly advanced spacefareing culture, explaining how they don't have a written language. It's that dumb.
Fear to Tread, Unremembered Empire, Angel Exterminatus, Scars: Total filler. None of these novels is a complete waste of time, but they're also not really anything more than The Black Library's quest to sell you another book because you're a sucker.

Should skip:
Vengeful Spirit: This book is also complete filler, it's cheesy product placement for the new knight models, the characters are two dimensional, even for 40K. The "Everybody lives to Fight Another Day" subplot is equally bad.
Vulkan Lives: The title is all you need to know. Save the trudge of figuring out how,
Damnation of Pythos: FIller, through and through. Not evn interesting filler.
Descent of Angels/Fallen Angels: Filler, and poorly written, silly filler at that.
Deliverance Lost: Crap. Bad plot, poor writing, more tired Alpha Legion Scooby Doo shenanigans.
Outcast Dead: Garbage filler.

Away from at all costs:
Battle for the Abyss: This was the first Horus Hersy novel I read, and it was so awful, it was very nearly the last. This book has no redeeming qualities. The characters are made of cardboard, the villains have ridiculously curly mustaches, the plot doesn't even make sense in the 40K universe. It's all bad, all the time.

HH series has largely lost its point or relevance since about Fear to Tread. Books until then are enjoyable though.

Scars is excellent, actually. It's skippable in as much as any of them are but it's the first proper time we've seen the White Scars and explains how they ended up staying loyal to the Emperor. It's damned good. Possibly my favourite.

I'd recommend First Heretic, Scars, Shadows of Treachery, Unremembered Empire and Horus Rising. Any of the other Horus books just make him seem like a moron. Vulkan Lives and anything to do with Vulkan in the HH is just terrible, his cameo in one of my listed books is the worst part. It's a hit and miss series, more miss than hit though unfortunately

I've only read a few of the HH series, but even setting aside my appreciation for 40k lore, A Thousand Sons is solidly written fiction.

 LordofHats wrote:
I've only read a few of the HH series, but even setting aside my appreciation for 40k lore, A Thousand Sons is solidly written fiction.

I'm always amazed at how much people like this novel. Sure, the novel certainly had it's high points and plot wise it explained a great deal, but I can't forgive Graham for wasting so many damn pages on that totally irrelevant remembrance subplot. That and the snoozefest that was Ahriman's storytelling of the psychneuein plague nearly bored me to death. The rest was good tho.

Im with you on that Red.

you can completely ignore:

Nemesis. Utter utter gak and doesn't add anything.

Damnation Of Pythos - gak gak gak gak gak gak

---------------------

you can skip:

The Outcast Dead - not much cop and oesn't add anything but readable

Vengeful Spirit - see above

----------

particularly worth reading:

A Thousand Sons
The First Heretic
Prospero Burns
Know No Fear
Fear To Tread
Betrayer

I think these should also cover what you need to know.

The short story collections are all good too, mostly.

The other novels are ok and will fill the gaps!

As many have already stated--there are some that are really good--in fact the first 5 or so are really good! My favorite is the Flight of the Eisenstein. There are some of the books (and I am only speaking of the ones that are full novels) are in fact 'fillers' and keep the whole series running. Some do add new 'fluff' to the Horus Heresy while others are down right boring. I have to admit though--I will read all of them until the heresy comes to an end. Who knows...maybe they will start a series of the aftermath of the Horus Heresy--in which the Primarch's that are left argue over what to do--with Guilliman writing and getting the others to agree to the Codex that we are familiar with. Who knows?

Really enjoyed Nemesis. Thought it had a good premise, Spear was a great character and it built to a nice crescendo. Different strokes I suppose.

I, too, would suggest the first couple short story anthologies. Specifically the first one: Tales of Heresy. I'm reading through it yet another time lately, if only for The Last Church.

Just reread (listened to) the first two and beginning on the third. The first two are really bland and uninspired overall, but this third one might be okay.

Whatever you do, walk away from Damnation of Pythos, what a waste of paper!
I swear it started out as a non-HH related short story that was then re-jigged and padded out, and it adds nothing to the HH story arc.

I mean, it's even worse than Descent of Angels...

Have to agree with farmersboy...Damnation of Pythos--way out there.

I haven't read Damnation of Pythos, but in general I don't think every story needs to add to the general story of the heresy, I think there's loads of room for cool little stories in there that have no actual bearing on the central plot. But I get that isn't the only complaint about DoP, and the series is definitely too far towards the 'stories that have no bearing on the plot' side of things as a whole.

 farmersboy wrote:
Whatever you do, walk away from Damnation of Pythos, what a waste of paper!
I swear it started out as a non-HH related short story that was then re-jigged and padded out, and it adds nothing to the HH story arc.

I mean, it's even worse than Descent of Angels...

So far Damnation is the only book in the series that I haven't bought when it's been released in MMPB. I've had a flick through a few pages and it really didn't grab me. I wonder how it's performed compared to the other books in the series.