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Man is this an area that is a vast arid desert, studded with crowded oases.

There are games from the 1980s for 6mm and 15mm that were probably the MOST AWESOME Games ever.

Yet they never caught on due to lack of support by their publishers.

The best one I can think of is Striker from GDW, and DirtsideDirtside II (which was basically a copy of the former without the command and control rules). And Striker II, although "intended" for 28mm miniatures, was best when played with 15mm or 6mm figures, and the rules allowed for the integration of armor and mechs (although the rules for building mechs were cumbersom, and no one did any that got published).

But all of these systems were some of the best Sci-Fi games I have ever played.

Both of the Striker iterations really required a GM to play, as they were a kind of mix of RPG and Miniature Game (the players basically took on the role of the force commander for their side, which allowed for limited intelligence and hidden movement that sometimes became a game in itself).

But that was a LOT of fun, in that the game became a combination of not just being able to outgun your opponent, but to FIND your opponent, and to execute a plan better than the opponent (and, it did not often matter if it was a bad plan, as it rewarded ANY plan over no plan).

But both games had the companies making the miniatures screw them by not continuing to support the ones (it was a case of "No one is buying the miniatures." Responded with "No one is buying the miniatures because the line is incomplete. Players cannot buy a complete force.")

It would be sort of like if Citadel only ever produced two Tactcal Marines, one Heavy Weapon Marine, and then stopped there.

No one would play the game when you have no command figures, no communications, no librarians, no inquisition, other heavy weapons, no artillery, no vehicles, etc.

Why is it that people cannot figure this out when they make miniatures?

If you produce an incomplete line, of COURSE sales are not going to be very good.

MB

 lord_blackfang wrote:
There are no 15mm games on the market that I would call "supported" in the sense that 40k or Warmachine or Infinity are supported. There are some rulesets that you can buy. And there are some minis you can buy. You have to scrounge up minis from different ranges and hope you can get a coherent force going. Nobody offers a complete range of minis, let alone rules to go with those specific minis. It's a loose amalgam of rules and mini manufacturers and a player base that makes Star Trek furry LARPers look socially adjusted.

10mm is a different matter, you have DZC, already mentioned, as well as Spartan's... Firestorm Planetfall? These are both proper games in the usual hobby sense.

6mm... see 15mm. There was a company that tried doing a full range, but it devolved into GW Epic knockoffs.

This was basically my point.

You have a lot of isolated ecosystems.

You have all of these miniatures produced, yet no specific game for which they are designed, and then you have this slew of games without dedicated miniatures.

And then you have the few, like Planetfall or DZC, which have the game and miniatures.

It isn't like I am unaware of the manufacturers, or miniatures.

I have thousands of 6mm Sci-Fi miniatures (which I wish that I could find others to play with). And I have quite a few 15mm Sci-Fi miniatures (mostly old Citadel and Ral Partha), as well as being aware of the newer stuff (such as Darkest Star Games 15mm Venturians and Federation, as well as their new 15mm vehicles based upon the 6mm designs).

MB

I still run Striker whenever I get the chance.

It is VERY DIFFERENT as a miniature game, because players can't just do what they want with their miniatures.

Rather than playing an omnipotent, omniscient God, who moves around units of miniatures, in Striker you play the role of your force CO.

And you have to either personally lead, or order your forces (with very specific orders) to get them to act.

And it can take a while to give new orders (typically 4 - 8 turns for your average squad).

So, players can get frustrated when their plans don't work out.

But once players understand the limitations of the game, it is one of the fastest playing Sci-fi games I have ever played (because there are so very few options, once the play begins, for the forces involved).

And it lends itself exceedingly well to Campaign play.

MB