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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/15 19:29:33
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Dakka Veteran
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So the thing that makes Abby special is that he is a true champion of chaos undivided, but does anything in published lore imply that a greater plan is in store for him or is just being set up to fail ala Horus?
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I went to Hershey Park in central PA this year, and I have to say I was more than a little disappointed. I fully expected the entire theme park to be make entirely of chocolate, but no. Here in America, we have "building codes," and some other nonsense about chocolate melting if don't store it someplace kept below room temperature. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/15 19:38:26
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Guelph Ontario
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The Night Lords books theorize that Abaddon is doomed to fail, but it doesn't matter because every time he causes trouble, the Imperium loses more. Having one big person act as a focal point for the Imperium's troubles allows more disruption to be sown where their borders weaken.
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Think of something clever to say. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/15 20:00:50
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Dakka Veteran
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Arcsquad12 wrote:The Night Lords books theorize that Abaddon is doomed to fail, but it doesn't matter because every time he causes trouble, the Imperium loses more. Having one big person act as a focal point for the Imperium's troubles allows more disruption to be sown where their borders weaken.
Is this to imply that perhaps the Night Lords and other Warbands are just waiting for him to mess up real big now? I get the feeling that on the level of individual Chaos Marines and individual warbands, having a single focal leader makes them a more viable army, but allows for less overall damage to be done. When the fragile grip Abby has on most other Chaos Marines goes away, will the Imperium have a lot of smaller threats to deal with on a bigger scale, now?
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I went to Hershey Park in central PA this year, and I have to say I was more than a little disappointed. I fully expected the entire theme park to be make entirely of chocolate, but no. Here in America, we have "building codes," and some other nonsense about chocolate melting if don't store it someplace kept below room temperature. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/15 20:44:57
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The big plan is Abaddon's, not the chaos gods, as he is using them as they all compete to gain his total allegiance. He is always cited in the fluff as the single greatest threat to the Imperium. If the story line ever progressed (which I doubt it will, as obviously a setting of all out war is the best possible backdrop for a wargame) it would see him assaulting Terra, and probably destroying the golden throne. That's the destiny that the fluff has given him, although many people seem to think him incompetent and incapable of doing so. Personally I'd like to see that happen, and think the game would survive the progression.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/15 23:30:11
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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That's the destiny that the fluff has given him, although many people seem to think him incompetent and incapable of doing so. Personally I'd like to see that happen, and think the game would survive the progression.
That's because people think the Black Crusades have all launched with the intent to take Terra, when that isn't at all true.
Of all 13 Black Crusades to date, most of them have been resounding successes, with only 2 major defeats.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 00:02:10
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Guelph Ontario
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Though that was a retcon in order to make sense of what each crusade was trying to accomplish.
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Think of something clever to say. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 00:31:51
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'
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Arcsquad12 wrote:Though that was a retcon in order to make sense of what each crusade was trying to accomplish.
It is a retcon; used to be that each Crusade was angled to crush the Imperium entirely.
That said though.. Retcons fly so fast and furious in 40k, not to mention that it's supposed to have a "inaccurate mythology" vibe to it. So it's not saying much, and simply saying that the perceived goals vs actual goals are only known to a handful of people.
To put things in perspective, it's not as big a retcon as when the Emperor went from walking around on Terra to being a dying husk, or when space marines went from being largely convicts to pious battle monks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 10:18:30
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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morganfreeman wrote: It is a retcon; used to be that each Crusade was angled to crush the Imperium entirely. That said though.. Retcons fly so fast and furious in 40k, not to mention that it's supposed to have a "inaccurate mythology" vibe to it. So it's not saying much, and simply saying that the perceived goals vs actual goals are only known to a handful of people. To put things in perspective, it's not as big a retcon as when the Emperor went from walking around on Terra to being a dying husk, or when space marines went from being largely convicts to pious battle monks. I... don't get it. Having RT in my hands I can say for a fact that the Big E had been, and unless 2nd E is that single weird and awkward spike in the fluff department, has always being bounded on the golden toilet since time immemorial. Regardless, Abbadon is rectonn'd from a single-minded destroyer, as it were, to have a systematic and well-thought-out reason for all his Black Crusades, is exactly because Abbadon had done the same thing far too many times and failed his previous stated goals for all of them. Despite whoever or whatever will have you know, Chaos is the one that shall end the universe. Necron would have to be forced into hibernation, if even that; Tyranids will all starve after an entire galaxy that's either in their way, or one which they have a plan for, is scourged of all life or wrapped up into multiple warp storms. To achieve this, however, there needs to be a looming threat from Chaos that's actually competent. To give Abbadon's assorted "failed" campaigns a shared purpose, Abbadon will be turned from an incompetent warmonger into an ever-scheming strategist who shall no doubt bring an end to the Milky Way the way GW wants it... I swear this is thelast edit: the last image seemed too blurry to me, so I re-uploaded another that's clearer. Darn the Poor lightning conditions and phonecams.
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This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2015/06/16 19:39:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 02:06:08
Subject: Re:What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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The Night Lords books theorize that Abaddon is doomed to fail
In the first one Talos says that they don't think they can win. In the second one Ruven tells Talos that Abaddon is the bane of the Imperium and rumored to be the clone son of horus for good reason. He then goes on to say that Abaddon is commands larger forces then Horus ever did and disunity among the Chaos Legions is the only reason the Imperium still exist.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 03:08:59
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Fixture of Dakka
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JamesY wrote:The big plan is Abaddon's, not the chaos gods, as he is using them as they all compete to gain his total allegiance. He is always cited in the fluff as the single greatest threat to the Imperium. If the story line ever progressed (which I doubt it will, as obviously a setting of all out war is the best possible backdrop for a wargame) it would see him assaulting Terra, and probably destroying the golden throne. That's the destiny that the fluff has given him, although many people seem to think him incompetent and incapable of doing so. Personally I'd like to see that happen, and think the game would survive the progression.
AoS for 40K?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 13:30:29
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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"Abaddon has led twelve Black Crusades against the Imperium. Some have been great invasions of whole Legions of the lost and the damned, others have been vicious raids with only a few companies of the most deadly Chaos Space Marines at his command. Each attack has sent the Imperium reeling and ravaged worlds close to the Eye of Terror. The High Lords of Terra live in fear of the day that Abaddon unites all of the Traitor Legions into an unstoppable horde and returns to play out the last acts of treachery begun by Horus ten thousand years ago."
"Abaddon dreams of forging a diabolic empire of his own from the blazing ruins of the shattered Imperium. Each world, each city destroyed, is a step closer to wiping the canvas clean so he can make his mark upon the galaxy."
"Abaddon the Despoiler, most feared adversary of the Imperium, has slowly but surely marshalled the forces of countless Traitor Legions to the point where he stands on the brink of challenging the Emperor himself as Warmaster Horus did before him."
To me, perhaps with the benefit of perspective of where the fluff is today, the way the 2nd ed codex is setting the scene is Abaddon has been bringing together the forces of chaos to the point where he can launch the greatest and final black crusade, the one which will bring the imperium to it's knees.
"12 failures" is nothing to do with retcon. It is something the playerbase invented.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 13:47:05
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Or its propaganda established by his cultists.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 13:57:54
Subject: Re:What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
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I've always seen Abaddon as the shining example that makes CSM so dangerous as elite raiders but not-so-dangerous as an organized force which aims to topple the Imperium.
Meat grinder machine, insanely good combat specialist, charismatic and all that. But hardly a great strategist, and needing to devote too much time to watching his back from some ambitious rival champions. Also with a few serious personality issues, on one hand he respects Horus as his 'father' and predecessor, on the other he despises him as a 'rival' whose exploits he aims to surpass. Results: self-doubts, insecurity, constant urges to prove himself better, etc.
Then the 6th ed. codex came around and they turned him into a "just as planned" moustache-twirling villain. Feh.
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Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.
GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 14:06:15
Subject: Re:What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
california
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Abbadon couldn't destroy the golden throne if the iom let him walk up to it without a fight.bplease don't act as if csm of any nature, to include abbadon, are worth anything in 40k except to give everyone who doesn't play them an easy enemy to beat.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 14:48:05
Subject: Re:What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Or its propaganda established by his cultists.
Everything is propaganda established by a cultist in 40k a chaos cultist, an imperial cultist, a greater good cultist.
Chaos is the one that shall end the universe
But Chaos doesn't end life, it corrupts, changes, infected, perverts, deceives, but has no interest in killing off the beings that give them power.
being largely convicts
I like them more before that retcon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 18:08:27
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Relapse wrote: JamesY wrote:The big plan is Abaddon's, not the chaos gods, as he is using them as they all compete to gain his total allegiance. He is always cited in the fluff as the single greatest threat to the Imperium. If the story line ever progressed (which I doubt it will, as obviously a setting of all out war is the best possible backdrop for a wargame) it would see him assaulting Terra, and probably destroying the golden throne. That's the destiny that the fluff has given him, although many people seem to think him incompetent and incapable of doing so. Personally I'd like to see that happen, and think the game would survive the progression.
AoS for 40K?
Age of Abaddon... Yeah I like it. I could see a similar scenario to Archeon (who was always the fantasy equivalent anyway), Abaddon's spent the last 17 years in the fluff as a menace, it's time he got stepped up to the hype. Or killed in a crusade to make way for someone new. Either way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/21 18:21:47
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
Norway
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According to ADB he want to supplant Empy and get to be another god in this universe.
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If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/21 18:40:05
Subject: What is the Purpose of Abbadon and the Favor he Gains from Chaos?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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He wants to be a "Chaos Emperor" to succeed where his father Horus failed. To prove he is the best.
The problem is Chaos doesn't want an Emperor or a leader to unite its forces because that is too unified, too ordered. Chaos is by its very definition Chaotic.
If Abaddon wins, everything falls to anarchy.
The only one to truly lead a Chaos/Humanity empire would be Lorgar as he understood the unity required for Humanity to survive and win.
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