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so I was going through the codex again today, in great detail....just to pick up on any little thing I may have missed to get some more tricks up my sleeve (harlequins always looking for more tricks). Oh, and I realized I've been paying 75pts for starweavers in all my lists instead of 70pts...not sure why.

Anyway, looked at this piece of wargear and had 2nd thoughts about it. It's brutally expensive (25pts) but increases the survivability of one of your characters considerably (although being T3, still easy to ID one if roll a 1 or 2.).

So considered 2 options for it.
1. The warlord. This is an obvious one. Let's face it, unless you're running a jester/seer in with your sqd you're running with your harlies. Increasing your Warlord's ability to stay alive (and kill enemy characters) is quite tempting. I usually equip mine with a a caress to take advantage of his increased attacks. It's quite a tax, but with so many Warlord Traits focused around the warlord it might be quite nice (unless you roll Fractal storm). But if you roll Luck of the Laughing God, you're rerolling saving throws of 1 (I doubt I'll ever run the Cegorach's revenge) making him even tougher to kill.
2. Your lvl 2 Seer with mask in a Heroes Path. Downside, you're losing out on the hallucinogen shots if you run, but he becomes very tough. infiltrate him deep in enemy lines, give him telepathy for psychic shriek. he's doing a ton of damage in the backfield alongside your 3++ Solitaire.

thoughts?

I plan on running a squad of Harlequins on foot, so the troupe master/warlord will definitely get the starmist raiment. I considered running him with a power sword but that get expensive really quick so I think I will stick to either a caress or a kiss. The rest of the troupe (7 players) get a few Embraces and the rest kisses. I'm going to run a Shadowseer with the troupe as well for Veil of Tears.

Too expensive for my taste.

I run all my Harlie HQs in DE venoms anyway, so I don't really need the excess survivability all that bad.

I don't see the power weapon as ever being worth it. The AP3 kills it for me. I'd rather take a caress any day of the week, then I don't care how Tough you are or if you have 2+ armour.

This piece of wargear is expensive, but not yielding Kill The warlord as easily may be worth it. I definitely think if using the Dark Warlord Traits you will want him to survive the battle (with the exception of Final Joke of course!)

Since you only get it on the turns you run it's best used on a troupe master on foot to try and tank with. Unless you are using a formation that allows you to charge after running it's not worth it, and it's only really worth it if you are using Cegorach's revenge so you can reroll ones.

Starmist is always nice to have. In most missions where warlord is a vital point or two, it's nice for extra insurance on the warlord. It also makes them better for challenges against beefier characters.

As for putting it on a shadowseer, no. Starmist really benefits from Rising Crescendo, where you can actually make use of the 3++ while still fighting. Secondly, the shadowseer (if you only have one) really wants the mask of secrets instead. Like all new relics, you can only have one relic per model, so no mask + starmist.

Never worth it for T3.

I always run it on my warlord troupe master, alongside a powersword. The Harlequin are fast enough to never have to worry about terminator level threats unless I REALLY want to. I then spend the game chasing down objective campers and beating them senseless. My troupers with him have kisses, that in addition to the sheer amount of basic attacks means even when I did fight termies, they weren't an issue.

I don't think the T3 is an issue, it's 2 wounds max anyway, so ID is not such a big deal. But since several TacObj cards gives VPs for killing warlord plus auto +1 VP, he may be worth keeping around with a 3++.

What is your list like? It really won't keep him around very well unless your running him in a formation that has Rising Crescendo, and doesn't really shine unless you are running Cegorach's revenge to get the reroll on 1s.

Without that when you run to get the 3++ you can't assault and are open to being shot which is generally the worst place for harlequins to be regardless of one with a 3++.

I think its generally far to situational to be worth 25 points. I mean most of the time you should Look out Sir hits on your warlord anyway if you want to keep him alive. The extra harlequin and a half that you could buy instead of this would probably keep him alive better, and provide better offense at the same time.

I was running starmist raiment on my warlord up until mondays game, yesterday I ran him without it. Sadly, it is not worth it. You will have the 3+ inv save going continuously thanks to hit and run, but the sad truth is that he is way to squishy to put in front of the troupe. So you put him in the back, and you do look out sirs whenever you can. So in the end, you never get to use that 3+ save until he is alone, and by that time it is too late for that 3+ to save him. So in the games I have had it on him, he never got to use it, and the game I had yesterday where I didn't use it, there was no point where he could have gotten to use it.

The best defense for a troupe is having a shadowseer with veil and possibly the power that can force the closest units to snap fire. If you have a telepathy seer with invincibility, then that is crazy good as well.

If you want to run a solo seer, then Heroe's path is better than rainment, but costs a lot more. A telapathy seer with mask is amazing in that formation. The Death Jester can be good fun there as well, if you have a seer up you get -4 on the forced leadership test. The problem with him is that his rifle should have been ap2 or ap3, and/or he should have had a 60" range (more so on the 1 shot profile). As it is now, he is usually only in range of one target, that target can't be a vehicle, and it can't be locked in combat (hit and run helps with this, but usually a troupe locked in combat will have everything dead by the time the death jester could fire). When you do get a shot he is kinda dependent on getting a rending shot to get a wound. So you pay 60 points for a guy that might not do anything the whole game, or might kill one guy but the leadership test can still pass. The solitaire can be good, but in the games I have played with him so far, I have a hard time finding him a suitable target. Since he is only one T3 model, then anything that hits 2 shots in overwatch will take a wound on him in average, then he has to kill the almost whole unit alone, or the resulting close combat phase will probably kill him. In the games I have tested him, he has had no choice but to go against wraith lords and knights, and that has not gone well for him. I also tested running haywire on him, but the problem with this is that you can only use it in shooting phase, and in shooting so far I have had to run to get closer to targets, so I have never gotten to use it. I wish he had had som variant of banshees mask, and/or a possible armor bane upgrade.

On a side note, I feel harlequins could easily have been made better if GW had added some 10/15 point armor bane weapons to the IC armory.

my list is currently a masque so do get rising crescendo. I'm not overthrilled with the Cegorach's Revenge formation at this point, I don't want two units of skyweavers.

My 1500pts list is..

5 harlequins, caress, 3 kiss, 1 embrace 123
Starweaver 70
5 harlequins, caress, 3 kiss, 1 embrace 123
Starweaver (fast attack slot) 70
10 harlequins, caress and starmist, 6 kiss, 2 embrace 243
3 skyweavers, zephyrglaives 180
2 Voidweavers 150
2 jesters w h/w 130
jester 60
seer with mask, ML2 100
seer, ML 2 85
Solitaire, rose, h/w 165

I plan to run the jesters w h/w in the starweavers with troupes. after dumping troupe, they can fly around, targeting vehicles or backfield units.
I'm debating adding haywire cannons to the skyweavers but figured they'd either be turbo-boosting or jinking so wouldn't make use of them, but +15pts is very little points for such a huge boost to AT.
I'm also contemplating pulling out 1 jester, seer and the solitaire and using them in the Heroes path formation. The other seer I will run with the 10 man harlies, and as mentioned, jesters in the weavers.

As to the starmist, my warlord is going to fight in some challenges, and armed with a caress, is capable of taking down many foes. I'd like him to survive those challenges, and since I use dark warlord traits, it's best he stay alive...or if dies in a challenge, he could take out his opponent (The Final Joke). The only trait I would reroll would be Fractal Storm obviously.

 bullyboy wrote:
my list is currently a masque so do get rising crescendo. I'm not overthrilled with the Cegorach's Revenge formation at this point, I don't want two units of skyweavers.

My 1500pts list is..

5 harlequins, caress, 3 kiss, 1 embrace 123
Starweaver 70
5 harlequins, caress, 3 kiss, 1 embrace 123
Starweaver (fast attack slot) 70
10 harlequins, caress and starmist, 6 kiss, 2 embrace 243
3 skyweavers, zephyrglaives 180
2 Voidweavers 150
2 jesters w h/w 130
jester 60
seer with mask, ML2 100
seer, ML 2 85
Solitaire, rose, h/w 165

I plan to run the jesters w h/w in the starweavers with troupes. after dumping troupe, they can fly around, targeting vehicles or backfield units.
I'm debating adding haywire cannons to the skyweavers but figured they'd either be turbo-boosting or jinking so wouldn't make use of them, but +15pts is very little points for such a huge boost to AT.
I'm also contemplating pulling out 1 jester, seer and the solitaire and using them in the Heroes path formation. The other seer I will run with the 10 man harlies, and as mentioned, jesters in the weavers.

As to the starmist, my warlord is going to fight in some challenges, and armed with a caress, is capable of taking down many foes. I'd like him to survive those challenges, and since I use dark warlord traits, it's best he stay alive...or if dies in a challenge, he could take out his opponent (The Final Joke). The only trait I would reroll would be Fractal Storm obviously.

The problem I have had so far with using the warlord in challenges with starmist, is that he just murderface the challengee on initiative 7 step, long before anything can hit him back. I do agree though, that if you meet a character that survives initiative 7, then you are pretty much toast without a 3+. I always run with a shadowseer though, and sometimes I will do the challenges on him for 5x S6 attacks with fleshbane but AP-. Can be easier to kill multiwound T3 characters with him, depending on armor saves. If you have a shadowseer that forces opponents to need 6s to hit in close combat, that is also soo good. Great fun to use against an imperial knight player! <3

As for the bikes. If you are building a competitive list, I think they are best left at home, but I am going to assume you think the models are kickass and want to use them anyway. The shuriken/glaive combo would be the best use of these bikes, especially with 2W T4 4+ and hit and run, good for taking overwatch and then let the other harlies join. The problem is that after being forced to take 3 troupes (and most likely putting them in star weavers) and a voidweaver, then you don't need more melee/shuriken. What you need is anti-vehicle. So even if haywire is the worse option on the bikes by themselves, I find them the best option in combination with the Troupes. However, 3 bikes with haywire is going to do average out to 2 glancing hits, and if opponent has cover, then 1 glancing hit per round. 165 points for 1 glancing hit is pretty bad. Against certain armies, you might be pretty desperate to pop transports before harlies arrive to assault the contents, and if there are rhinos sitting behind 4+ cover, then it would take 3 turns on average to take it out. However, 2 glancing on an AV 13 knight/walker or land raider who are probably pushing forward rather than hiding in cover, is alright though. So, in the one list I have them still included, I have some reapers and fire dragons as well.

I don't see why you wouldn't want those units in a heroes path, If you are not placing the shadowseer in a unit for veil, then heroes path for 2+ cover saves and infiltrate is amazing. Regarding the solitaire, I think we had this discussion in another thread, so I wont get into it too much again, but the rose on the solitaire only let's you reroll the hit and wound on the one kiss strike (assuming you use the embrace for the remaining 7/11 hits. For 15 points I don't see the point, that's an extra mask or haywire grenades on your seers. Regarding haywire on him, as mentioned in the above post, if you have to run with the solitaire to reduce your charge range, then you wont get to use the haywire grenade at all,that's even assuming you have no other better targets for the solitaire than a vehicle, so I would only put a haywire on him if I had 5 points left and nothing else I would want to put haywire grenades on.

my force is stuck in that area of not having points for allies (we usually play 1500) and not having enough AT. hence the haywire everywhere. If higher games, I can ally with my Iyanden Eldar and get all the AT I need.

I like the h/w on the solitaire as he is pretty decent at taking down vehicles if no other juicier targets. With 12" move, he's in the backfield so may not need the run before charge (and if used in a heroes path formation, couldn't do it anyway). he is almost guaranteed to hit with his insane BS, and he is a beast vs vehicles in close combat too. With 7 Caress attacks on the charge, there's a good chance for a 6 to pop up, maybe even a pair.

I agree with you on the bikes, I'm just taking them because I have 4 (1 which I will convert to a harlie champion, counts-as autarch). Otherwise, my Masque FA slots will be filled with starweavers. I'm also tempted to not run the masque, and just take 3 formations..Cegorach's Jest, Heroes and cast of Players. This cuts back on 1 harlie sqd and starweaver, freeing up points for allies.

I have lots of things to try out, but since one of my main opponents plays demonkin (Fearless) and Dark Angels (Stubborn/Fearless), mnay of my Ld based attacks doesn't do much to him.

 bullyboy wrote:
my force is stuck in that area of not having points for allies (we usually play 1500) and not having enough AT. hence the haywire everywhere. If higher games, I can ally with my Iyanden Eldar and get all the AT I need.

I like the h/w on the solitaire as he is pretty decent at taking down vehicles if no other juicier targets. With 12" move, he's in the backfield so may not need the run before charge (and if used in a heroes path formation, couldn't do it anyway). he is almost guaranteed to hit with his insane BS, and he is a beast vs vehicles in close combat too. With 7 Caress attacks on the charge, there's a good chance for a 6 to pop up, maybe even a pair.

I agree with you on the bikes, I'm just taking them because I have 4 (1 which I will convert to a harlie champion, counts-as autarch). Otherwise, my Masque FA slots will be filled with starweavers. I'm also tempted to not run the masque, and just take 3 formations..Cegorach's Jest, Heroes and cast of Players. This cuts back on 1 harlie sqd and starweaver, freeing up points for allies.

I have lots of things to try out, but since one of my main opponents plays demonkin (Fearless) and Dark Angels (Stubborn/Fearless), mnay of my Ld based attacks doesn't do much to him.

I think taking those 3 formations could work. Cast is kinda dependant on getting first turn to get off veil, but works otherwise. Jest is nice but would have been better if the formation included a shadowseer imho.

Agreed, masks on seers are useless against fearless, but can still be good if you are making a psychich shriek seer.

Not saying haywire on solitaire wont ever be used, I just feel it might be better and see more use on certain troupe masters or seers, who might find a use for it both in shooting phase and assault phase.

You can run a harlequin lists with 3 troupes, 3 shadowseers and a voidweaver for 950 points. You could drop a seer for jester if you wanted. So you could afford 500-600 points in allies if you wanted, it just means running without solitaire. So you could bring 3 scatter bikes with a serpent with 5 wraith guard (this unit not only an insane anti tank, its awsome for forcing opponent to focus fire the serpent rather than your fragile starweavers) and a farseer/spiritseer and still have some extra points for serpent or troupe upgrades. Or you could go for autarch with fusion gun and fire dragons with a shadowseer in a serpent. I assume there is something similar if you want to go dark eldars or some other ally option in stead. Then if you up to 1850 games then you could put in a solitaire more easily. Depends on how fluffy vs how effective you want to be.

I don't have the scatter bikes and plan not to use them.....however, 3 harlequin bikes with shurican cannons could certainly be subbed as Troop choice shuri bikes. I do have the 5 WG and serpent. Solitaire does not need to be always present, although my buddy is deathly afraid of him.

 bullyboy wrote:
I don't have the scatter bikes and plan not to use them.....however, 3 harlequin bikes with shurican cannons could certainly be subbed as Troop choice shuri bikes. I do have the 5 WG and serpent. Solitaire does not need to be always present, although my buddy is deathly afraid of him.

I have actually bought some harlequin bikes and put scatters on them. Just be aware that the eldar bikes have smaler bases than the harlequin ones.

If your buddy is afraid of the solitaire, and if he is the type of player to build lists to counter specific armies (rather than all comers), he might be bringing extra stuff to deal with him, troupes and AV10 vehicles. If you then suddenly show up with wraithguard in AV12, then he might not have as much stuff to deal with them. Then you can go back to solitaire the next game, because he will have switched his list around to deal with the wraithguard in serpent.