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Initiative steps are still in effect here.

IF WS are equal hits on a 4+
IF WS is higher than the targets WS they would hit on a 3+
IF WS is lower than the targets WS they would hit on a 5+

IF WS is double the targets WS or more, then hits on 2+
IF WS is half or less than half of the target's WS, then hits on 6+

Real issue is wounds - low str models with high weapons skill get ripped off on wounds. If they are so skilled then they should know how to damage any opponent.
Conversely, low WS high str models wound easily via brute force. No accounts are taken for agility or intelligence.

So to wounds should be based on Init+Str - So a space marine has a Int+Str of 8. This is their Attack Score or AS. I use Initiative here because I look at as the primary function that decides your agility or dexterity and speed. It should affect more than just who strikes first.

IF AS is equal to target's T then wounds on a 4+
IF AS is higher than target's Toughness then they wound on a 3+
IF AS is lower than target's Toughness then they wound on a 5+

IF AS is double the target's Toughness or more, then they wound on 2+
IF AS is half or less than half then of the target's Toughness, then they wound on 6+

Using this system can people post some examples of what outcomes would be. I am only familiar with Tau, Necrons, Space Wolves.
I am still unsure of insta kill. if your AS is double the toughness of a model should it insta kill it. I am leaning to Yes - If your so fast and your attacks are so strong you should insta kill a model.

For example
Marines are T4 and would have an AS of 8 (Str 4, Init 4)
A necron Overlord with a warscythe has T5 and would have an AS of 9 (5str, 2 Init, +2 str from Warscyth)
So Marine goes first because Initiative.
Marine hits on 4+, wounds on a 3+
Overlord goes next
Hits on a 3+(WS5 v WS4), wounds on 2+ w/ instant death (AS9 vs T4)

A Wolf lord w/ Thunder hammer on a Twolf vs an Overlord W Warscythe
Overlord is first with Init 2 (Wlord is unwieldy)
Overlord with a warscythe has T5 and would have an AS of 9 (5str, 2 Init, +2 str from Warscyth)
Hits the Wlord on a 4+ (WS5vsWS5), Wounds on 3+(AS9 vs T5)
WLord turn
Hits on a 4+, Wounds on a 2+ w/ instant death (AS 14(Init 4, 5Str x 2) vs T5 ....Yes I'm of the belief that a WLord on a Thunderwolf mount has his stats changed to Str5 and not Str 4+1....if you play it different thats fine, please don't start a flame war here.

Any thoughts on this system? I think it simplifies things and gets rid of the charts.

Anyone else have examples? Would X2 weaponry need to change because you'd have ID everywhere or does it make X2 weaponry more realistic in its destructive power.


Also not sure yet how this would work with vehicles. Also considered the idea that perhaps a Defense Score could be created that looks at Init+Toughness. If everyone wounds on 3 or 2+ then that could be used. AS vs DS for to wound rolls

Whilst I usually hate any form cc (playing Tau), I don't really see a big issue with the Charts system.

With your new one your marines would instant kill any T4 model with an AS of 8, thus further breaking an already great army. Plus, this system is hardly 'simpler'.

 XV107 R'VARNA wrote:
Whilst I usually hate any form cc (playing Tau), I don't really see a big issue with the Charts system.

With your new one your marines would instant kill any T4 model with an AS of 8, thus further breaking an already great army. Plus, this system is hardly 'simpler'.

Agreed. It doesn't really fix anything, or make anything simpler. Sorry bud, I can see you've put time and effort into the idea, but I don't think it works.

This isn't chartless, you just simplified the chart to three options.

This wouldnt work because it would negate having a high toughness in the first place. Marines taking down a wraithknight in melee? not a chance.

Not much point in Furious charge etc for this either.

I do like the first half and might adopt it, as the current chart is a joke, just the Attack Score tries to change it far too much.

Using this chart basic troops become killer, as most models have the same S, T and I, almost everything would wound on a 2 if I've read this right, no way combat between two even models should be that bloody, eg marine A attacks marine B, alright they hit at the same time with their armour save after, but they're still wounding each other on 2+

Edit- thinking about it, these changes mean Eldar, being strength 3 and around I 5, can 2+ marines, rather than the current 5+.