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In the codex the rules state that one black knight may replace its plasma talons with a Ravenwing grenade launcher. Is there any reason why a model that was also upgraded with a banner, apothecary, or champion would not be able to take a grenade launcher as well, say in a 3-bike command squad?

The Ravenwing grenade launcher is an upgrade available to a Ravenwing Black Knight (proper name). Neither a Ravenwing Apothecary (proper name) or Ravenwing Champion (proper name) are a Ravenwing Black Knight (proper name) after being upgraded to an apothecary or champion.

You can take the grenade launcher on a black knight and then upgrade it to an apothecary, some disagree with this, others don't, best speak to your opponent prior to game.

 Ghaz wrote:
The Ravenwing grenade launcher is an upgrade available to a Ravenwing Black Knight (proper name). Neither a Ravenwing Apothecary (proper name) or Ravenwing Champion (proper name) are a Ravenwing Black Knight (proper name) after being upgraded to an apothecary or champion.

Would this then imply that it would be acceptable to mount the grenade launcher on a black knight upgraded with a banner or vice versa? I don't see a separate statline or unit type for a banner bearer.

The reason Ghaz posted is the reason you can't do that. As Formosa pointed out it is not a universally accepted reason. In fact upgrade issue like that are probobly one of the most devided arguments in 40k becouse FAQs have never directly addressed this question (and it is a very frequent question) and similar questions have had inconsistent answers.

I Run the grenade launcher on my banner bearer as he is still a black knight after taking either. I personally believe any should be able to take it but it's best suited to the banner bearer because the extra range over talons allows him to hide at the back of the squad


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DJGietzen wrote:
The reason Ghaz posted is the reason you can't do that. As Formosa pointed out it is not a universally accepted reason. In fact upgrade issue like that are probobly one of the most devided arguments in 40k becouse FAQs have never directly addressed this question (and it is a very frequent question) and similar questions have had inconsistent answers.

I don't believe banner bearers are included in the models that cant take it, Only the characters

Formosa wrote:You can take the grenade launcher on a black knight and then upgrade it to an apothecary, some disagree with this, others don't, best speak to your opponent prior to game.

Only if you assume that you only check the legality of a list as you make it in a 'one and done' fashion. In a Space Marine army, could I take an HQ on a bike so I can take Space Marine Bike Squads as Troops then drop the bike-mounted HQ but keep the bikers as Troops? After all, it was legal when I added the bikers.

Henesy wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
The Ravenwing grenade launcher is an upgrade available to a Ravenwing Black Knight (proper name). Neither a Ravenwing Apothecary (proper name) or Ravenwing Champion (proper name) are a Ravenwing Black Knight (proper name) after being upgraded to an apothecary or champion.

Would this then imply that it would be acceptable to mount the grenade launcher on a black knight upgraded with a banner or vice versa? I don't see a separate statline or unit type for a banner bearer.

The banner bearer doesn't have a separate profile listed and remains a Ravenwing Black Knight with all options available to Ravenwing Black Knights, nor does the banner add any additional restrictions..

It's going to be irrelevant next week anyway because the grenade launcher now sucks.

AlexRae wrote:
It's going to be irrelevant next week anyway because the grenade launcher now sucks.

Thanks for the contribution buddy

 jokerkd wrote:

AlexRae wrote:
It's going to be irrelevant next week anyway because the grenade launcher now sucks.

Thanks for the contribution buddy

Uh oh I missed this leak - RWGL launcher is no good in new codex? Fill me in?

To stay on topic - you can take the RWGL on the banner bearer. You cannot take a RWGL on a champion or apothecary. In all honesty, it is probably better if you do not have the launcher on the banner, though, as this makes this model more vulnerable to sniping from a talented player. I tend to prefer my eggs in different turbo-charged killing machines

Rad doesn't do -1t anymore apparently.

I don't beleive that! Those mechanicum forces have their rad field that does -1T so why wouldn't ravenwings do the same! Also I agree with being able to take a RWGL on any character in the command squad they are all still technically Black Knights just because someone hands you a banner doesn't meen your no longer allowed to be called what you are!

It still has a Stasis grenade which does not suck

I think you can take rad launcher on any of them.