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So I've been building a Renegades/CSM army for a while now and I thought to ask for help.

For the CSM, I have:
a squad of Marines (melta gun and plasma gun with bolt pistol/chainsword)
a squad of Chosen (Dark Vengeance set-up)
a Chaos Lord (Also Dark Vengeance)
a Helbrute (Lascannon w/ Power fist)
and plans for Chaos Terminators

On the Renegade side, I have:
40 Chaos Renegades (Cultists from Dark Vengeance and some plasma/melta)
30 Renegade Veterans ( Hotshot Lasguns and plasma/melta, as well as Autocannon/Lascannon support)

Here's where I'm stuck though.

My Original though was 2 Leman Russ (1 Vanquisher/ 1 Punisher) and 2 Thudd Guns/ Quad Mortars.

Now I'm thinking a Leman Russ Vanquisher and a Sentinel squad escort.

I'm mainly looking for something to take out tanks, the biggest being Land Raiders. Thoughts?

Thanks!

IMO the absolute nastiest anti armour in the renegades and heretics army list is the heavy artillery carriage with medusa cannon and bastion breacher shells. The 48" range means you always have range and Str10 armour bane will almost always pen.

The post points efficient is rapier batteries as 20 pts per TL Str9 Ordnance shot is an incredible deal even at BS2.

Personnally I have taken out more vehicles with my earthshaker heavy artillery carriages that I rarely consider needing dedicated anti tank. The large blasts are almost impossible to miss most vehicles and Str9 Ordnance gives a ~50% chance to strip an HP from AV14. So a unit of 3 usually averages just a bit less than 1.5 HP with no buffs, really good for a cheap, tough, and a great TAC choice.

One of the unique choices renegades has that is actually pretty effective is conqueror leman russ' with MM side sponsons. Renegades get them cheap enough that you can throw them en mass at the enemy.

I find the low BS of the renegades vanquisher is a huge draw back, same with the punisher. The executioner is actually really good but not what you wanted.

BTW the thudd gun and wyverns are both incredible anti infantry. If you like them you could instead take a dreadclaw with melta chosen as your dedicated anti tank. They work just as well or better than loyalist drop pod melta.

You also may want to consider just putting melta bombs on your chaos renegade infantry squads. You can actually accomplish a lot against a land raider with even a single melta bomb on a 30 pts unit.

Another option with renegades is taking tank hunters on the vets. It is a bit pricey for what you get but can do some work.

 ansacs wrote:
IMO the absolute nastiest anti armour in the renegades and heretics army list is the heavy artillery carriage with medusa cannon and bastion breacher shells. The 48" range means you always have range and Str10 armour bane will almost always pen.

The post points efficient is rapier batteries as 20 pts per TL Str9 Ordnance shot is an incredible deal even at BS2.

Personnally I have taken out more vehicles with my earthshaker heavy artillery carriages that I rarely consider needing dedicated anti tank. The large blasts are almost impossible to miss most vehicles and Str9 Ordnance gives a ~50% chance to strip an HP from AV14. So a unit of 3 usually averages just a bit less than 1.5 HP with no buffs, really good for a cheap, tough, and a great TAC choice.

One of the unique choices renegades has that is actually pretty effective is conqueror leman russ' with MM side sponsons. Renegades get them cheap enough that you can throw them en mass at the enemy.

I find the low BS of the renegades vanquisher is a huge draw back, same with the punisher. The executioner is actually really good but not what you wanted.

BTW the thudd gun and wyverns are both incredible anti infantry. If you like them you could instead take a dreadclaw with melta chosen as your dedicated anti tank. They work just as well or better than loyalist drop pod melta.

You also may want to consider just putting melta bombs on your chaos renegade infantry squads. You can actually accomplish a lot against a land raider with even a single melta bomb on a 30 pts unit.

Another option with renegades is taking tank hunters on the vets. It is a bit pricey for what you get but can do some work.

Wow, thanks for the feedback. I was considering the Earthshakers and the Medusas, as well as the idea of melta chosen because thats one of the few things they're good at. And the MM on the sponsons are actually a pretty awesome idea. I haven't yet looked at the tank hunter upgrade for the vets, but i was thinking two melta guns and Deep Strike would be dicey but fun.

My other thought that would bankrupt me was two contemptor dreads, 1 with lascannon/missile launcher or something similarly shooty and 1 with 2 chainfists, or a decimator to shake things up.


The problem that I have is that I want my army to be fluffy (doing Word Bearers) so lots of cultists, a couple of marines, but the BS on the Renegades is making it difficult to use their units as a dedicated anti-tank fire source. I keep getting drawn to CSM stuff. Also, how is the Executioner? It looks like it would be hilarious.

Thanks again. (And I really like the Earthshaker idea!)

IMO the strongest parts of the Renegades army list is its arty spam and body spam potential.

For 220 points you get 4 stationary earth-shakers that can strip HP off of most vehicles like no-ones business. For 100 points you get 30 renegades all with krak grenades (for 110 you can give them a sigil and a vox - so they'll get a good ld and almost never break).

The army is, like IG, very much about redundancy. You don't have one unit to handle AT duty - you have three, because you get three for the same points that other armies get one. So while yours aren't quite as specialized or great at it, sheer weight of numbers will let them carry the day. That even lets you keep it fluffy like you wanted - lots of cultists.

EDIT: Just be careful about playing to these strengths. I showed up for a game last week with ten stationary atry pieces (six earth-shakers, four medusas). A fair number of people weren't terribly thrilled, and one guy was bitching up a storm. Telling those people that your units have no armor save, no combat ability, gak-tacular BS, and can as easy wind up with LD 5 as with LD10 is a moot point - they only have eyes for the blast templates and big guns, not the draw-backs that come with.

 morganfreeman wrote:
IMO the strongest parts of the Renegades army list is its arty spam and body spam potential.

For 220 points you get 4 stationary earth-shakers that can strip HP off of most vehicles like no-ones business. For 100 points you get 30 renegades all with krak grenades (for 110 you can give them a sigil and a vox - so they'll get a good ld and almost never break).

The army is, like IG, very much about redundancy. You don't have one unit to handle AT duty - you have three, because you get three for the same points that other armies get one. So while yours aren't quite as specialized or great at it, sheer weight of numbers will let them carry the day. That even lets you keep it fluffy like you wanted - lots of cultists.

EDIT: Just be careful about playing to these strengths. I showed up for a game last week with ten stationary atry pieces (six earth-shakers, four medusas). A fair number of people weren't terribly thrilled, and one guy was bitching up a storm. Telling those people that your units have no armor save, no combat ability, gak-tacular BS, and can as easy wind up with LD 5 as with LD10 is a moot point - they only have eyes for the blast templates and big guns, not the draw-backs that come with.

Yeah, thats definately the feel I got from the Renegades XD. But that seems like a definately on the artillery. Would you suggest Earthshakers or Medusa? I've got about a spare 150$ for my army right now that i can use. The Breacher shells on the Medusa looked really nice.

Of the two, the Medusa is probably better. The Earthshaker is still effective but the option of bastion-breacher shells is just fantastic when you set them against land raiders, etc.

 stomp56 wrote:


Yeah, thats definately the feel I got from the Renegades XD. But that seems like a definately on the artillery. Would you suggest Earthshakers or Medusa? I've got about a spare 150$ for my army right now that i can use. The Breacher shells on the Medusa looked really nice.

Sadly, from Forgeworld, 150$ will get you maybe one arty carriage and 10 conversion torsos for renegades and heretics. Fortunately the army is entirely about conversions. So don't use the FW Artillery carriages, just use these. http://ww2toys.net/WWII-Vietnam-M59-155mm-Long-Tom-132-Scale-Model-V55001.htm

They're what I use, dirt cheap and freaking huge - they look great on the table-top and are the gun upon which the Earthshaker / Medusa is based on.

locarno24 wrote:
Of the two, the Medusa is probably better. The Earthshaker is still effective but the option of bastion-breacher shells is just fantastic when you set them against land raiders, etc.

They're for different things. One of the important things to remember is that your carriages cannot move - ever. Whilst a Medusa hits with godlike power it has a limited range and requires LoS, so a canny opponent will be able to avoid their shooting much of the time. Basilisks on the other hand can rain shells down on anything, anywhere, any time. And str 9, AP 3 is enough to threaten damn near anything. Essentially I'd suggest a mix with more earth-shakers than Medusas, and be ABSOLUTELY SURE to deploy your Medusa's where they have a commanding view of the field.

With regards to Breacher shells... I'm not a fan. Sure they're str 10 AP1 armorbane ordnance, but they're also small blasts without barrage on a platform which has bs2 baseline (bs3 with an upgrade). Actually hitting your target with them is surprisingly hard. Given how killing vehicles these days is about stripping HP, Earthshakers are often times a better investment because they'll cause light armor to suffer crucial existance failure and take out heavy armor in a couple of turn, and they're substantially cheaper.

Sadly, from Forgeworld, 150$ will get you maybe one arty carriage and 10 conversion torsos for renegades and heretics. Fortunately the army is entirely about conversions. So don't use the FW Artillery carriages, just use these. http://ww2toys.net/WWII-Vietnam-M59-155mm-Long-Tom-132-Scale-Model-V55001.htm

They're what I use, dirt cheap and freaking huge - they look great on the table-top and are the gun upon which the Earthshaker / Medusa is based on.

I am so happy right now. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! I think there's a good chance I'll be going with the Earthshakers now, and with the left over money, get a tank or two, or a Dreadclaw for some melta Chosen.

morganfreeman wrote:With regards to Breacher shells... I'm not a fan. Sure they're str 10 AP1 armorbane ordnance, but they're also small blasts without barrage on a platform which has bs2 baseline (bs3 with an upgrade). Actually hitting your target with them is surprisingly hard. Given how killing vehicles these days is about stripping HP, Earthshakers are often times a better investment because they'll cause light armor to suffer crucial existance failure and take out heavy armor in a couple of turn, and they're substantially cheaper.

I agree with a lot of what you said but I would like to note that small blast templates are excellent against super heavies and land raider variants which is where you really want Str10 AP1. I would definitely not spam them but I have found 1 unit of them really turns the tide against that imperial knight court or typhon.

 ansacs wrote:

morganfreeman wrote:With regards to Breacher shells... I'm not a fan. Sure they're str 10 AP1 armorbane ordnance, but they're also small blasts without barrage on a platform which has bs2 baseline (bs3 with an upgrade). Actually hitting your target with them is surprisingly hard. Given how killing vehicles these days is about stripping HP, Earthshakers are often times a better investment because they'll cause light armor to suffer crucial existance failure and take out heavy armor in a couple of turn, and they're substantially cheaper.

I agree with a lot of what you said but I would like to note that small blast templates are excellent against super heavies and land raider variants which is where you really want Str10 AP1. I would definitely not spam them but I have found 1 unit of them really turns the tide against that imperial knight court or typhon.

Oh yeah, against super heavies (and to a lesser extent LR's) breachers are pretty good, and that's more your local meta. If you routinely run into lots of landraiders / super heavies, than a unit of breacher medusa's will be a god send. I personally prefer the massive amounts of krak grenades approach coupled with earth shakers (even most shv's will be terrified of multiple groups of 30 krak grenades bearing down on them), but ymmv by a great deal.