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Let's make one thing clear. As a United States Citizen, you still have the right to fly the stars and bars. No one is stopping you. No official federal actions forced the removal of the confederate flag in SC. Public pressure did that. No one is under the illusion that removing the Confederate flag from Charleston will erase racism, but it is a start. The idea that African Americans can now see that the state government of SC no longer actively endorses a symbol of racism will be a (very) small step in easing racial division.

As a conservative and a libertarian, I think the conservative movement shoots itself in the foot by constantly crying, "Now isn't the time to have this conversation" because it puts us in an uncomfortable position. National conversations happen because people want it to happen (or the media drums it up).

What is there to say about the Dylan Roof that hasn't been said about Columbine or Newtown or Virginia Tech or Birmingham back in 1963? Stop trying to shut down the debate because you don't like the way it's going. Stop trying to defend a flag that screams racism to almost every black American living today.

 whembly wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 whembly wrote:
In the aftermath of these horrific murders, I'm saying that we should be praising the victim's families' reaction at the court hearing AND how the community responded. Like this:

Spoiler:

But, no... the media is talking about that stupid flag.

So, in this thread about the flag, you are telling us we should not be talking about the flag, but rather about something else. That is… weird.

*rubs temple*...*sigh*...*soldier on*...

All I'm saying, is that we need to remember that this story began with the people of Charleston and of SC uniting together in support of the victims of a shooting.

The flag controversy( which is an old controversy) is an attempt to deflect this story and pit us against one another.

It pits people who support a racist symbol against those who do not. This is a case of people finally demanding that a state cease this insanity.

Let's not forget when that flag was erected. The 1960s. This wasn't about honoring war dead as much as it was a flying "feth you" to desegregation.

 Thunderfrog wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

If this take this issue to its logical conclusion, then the British flag should be next...

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but no one is clamouring about the British flag in the US, because no one cares about it here. It's not a symbol of British oppression, it's a symbol of your neighbors fun vacation to London.

I know what your saying but from what I've been reading, all the talk is of 'symbols of oppression.' What could be more oppressing than the nation that tried to kill the USA in its infancy?

It's more like they were trying to hold on to an expensive venture that suddenly went south. We didn't from up from the Indians to have the brits come down on us. We came from the brits and then told them to bugger off when we realized they were an ocean away, making money off our work, and not listening to a word we said about how to better our own lives here.

Bettering your own lives at the expense of millions of people treated worse than cattle. Noble ideals indeed.

I don't think anyone is holding up the North as some beacon of tolerance and piety. Most serious conversations I've had on the subject gladly admit that the North had its fair share of sins along with the South. What I find frustrating is recently I can't get any of the people defending the south to even admit the secession was about slavery. Whataboutism abounds.

 Frazzled wrote:
I've never had a conversation with a Yankee or Left Coaster who in any way accepted that their regions weren't pure but the South was somehow this racist hellhole.

It goes to show the state of American debate.