Give everybody chapter tactics

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**Dakkamite**

People have been complaining about this aspect of Marines - and more specifically, its lack in their own armies - since chapter tactics were a thing.

My suggestion is that everyone can take a chapter tactic to apply to their entire army. Orks with Iron Hands (6+ FNP), Eldar with White Scars (Hit and Run)... yeah sounds legit to me.

As a provisor, the ultramarines tactics would *not* grant space marine tactical doctrines to an army! They'd be effectively off limits. Likewise some other tactics, such as Red Scorpions (Sgts get a free healing gizmo) would not work - in this case because our squads do not contain Space Marine Sergeants.

Game-wide chapter tactics would last until a given army recieves its own set of "Legion Tactics", "Klan Traits", "Regimental Doctrines" etc, at which point that army no longer has access to the chapter tactics. But like hell that will ever happen

Would be interested to hear what people think of this idea. Before anyone mentions tournaments or "oh noes decurion with additional FNP" this is the house rules section, and nobody who plays with that kind of stuff would be interested in what goes down in here.

**spiralingcadaver**

Can't tell if it's a joke...

Translating them exactly seems ridiculous.

Every army getting some form of custom rules like 3.5 was doing would be awesome. I'd be all for thematic buffs.

**cox.dan2**

Chapter Tactics for each faction I think would be cool and fluffy, like for Orks Goffs (6+FNP) Evil Sunz (+1 to RPG) or something.
The only thing is it's already a little unwieldy with so many special rules.

**Lance845**

I could see nids getting Hive fleet genetic strains.

Especially if it was tied into Synapse or something.

Like, picking a genetic strain that makes it so Nids in synapse gain additional benefits, or synapse is larger radius. Boosting shooting or melee or whatever. Would help you to build Hive fleets geared more towards particular units and tactics.

**chmcclellan**

I'm not sure just giving them C:SM Chapter Tactics is the way to go. However, after the 6th Ed. Space Marines codex and Iyanden/Farsight, I really hoped that customizable rules was way they were going. Regimental rules for IG come to mind . . .

**Dakkamite**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Can't tell if it's a joke...

Translating them exactly seems ridiculous.

Every army getting some form of custom rules like 3.5 was doing would be awesome. I'd be all for thematic buffs.

Whats ridiculous about it? There are the occasional ones, such as the forementioned "Space Marine Sergeants get Narthecium", which would not work. But army wide FNP, hit and run, and stuff like that could be translated easily to the other factions.

Would be great if every army had the same amount of detail but being who they are, GW has only given tactics to the Space Marines. If someone was to write up army rules for the various armies, then we get the usual problem of some people thinking X rule is too powerful, other people refusing to play it etc etc. So I've suggested just porting the chapter tactics as a middle ground - nobody can really argue that these rules are any more OP than the other crap in the game, because it all comes from the same source. I feel it could be a way to get people the same level of customization as chapters do, whilst avoiding a lot of the issues that result from pure homebrew rulesets.

**The Riddle of Steel**

Good idea.

I'm disappointed that Orks don't have any customization in army composition or any differentiation between the klans. Why do chapters always get special rules but Klans never have?

**jade_angel**

Heck, there should be some slight variation for Regiments, Craftworlds, Kabals, Septs, Hive Fleets, Klans, Orders and such...

**Dakkamite**

Its an excellent way to make one codex play a multitude of ways. If you've seen 30k, the same Legion army list becomes 10+ totally distinct armies through the addition of 2-3 characters, 2-3 units, and a legion tactics thing

So, which tactics would suit your particular army and its various sub-armies? The following is as close a comprehensive list for compatible Tactics that I can be bothered writing up. Could probably do with further adaptation to a general role, but aside from sometimes swapping "Bolters" (etc) for basic army small arms and the like its just chapter tactics from the codex and from forgeworld.

Note that unless otherwise stated, vehicles aside from walkers never recieve any benefit from these rules. Where I have said "non-vehicle units", Walkers still recieve the benefits.

Army Tactics ~ Feigned Retreat: Bikes gain +1 to Hammer of Wrath. Non-vehicle models gain Hit and Run

Army Tactics ~ Aimed Volley: Preferred Enemy (everything) when firing your unit's basic small arms - Lasgun, Shoota, Shurikan Cannon, Splinter Rifle etc. This also applies to upscaled versions of those weapons - Big Shoota, Shurikan Cannon, Lascannon etc.

Army Tactics ~ Even death shall not halt you: Non-vehicle models gain FNP (6+) or +1 to FNP rolls. Vehicles recieve It will not Die. Any model with the ability to repair a vehicle does so with a +1 to their dice roll.

Army Tactics ~ Purge with holy fire: 4+ FNP vs flamer weapons, flamer weapons gain shred and whatever that USR is that lets them reroll pens. Each character upgrades one weapon to be master crafted.

Army Tactics ~ Strike from the darkness: Non-vehicle units gain shrouded on turn one, and you may add +1 when rolling for night fight. Models with jump packs can also use them in both movement and assault phases, and gain shred on their hammer of wrath hits.

Army Tactics ~ Crush all who oppose you: Your army recieves Crusader and Adamantium Will. If your unit suffers one or more casualties during shooting or overwatch, they recieve the counterattack and rage special rules. You may not field any psykers in your army.

Army Tactics ~ Brutal Assault: Any model may exchange their primary weapon for a CCW at +1 point. Your models have the Fear special rule. Any unit in this army which kills an enemy unit in assault or makes them fall back gains Rage. When consolidating, such units must do so towards the nearest enemy. This army reduces its allies matrix rating to Desperate Allies to any army with which it had a better rating.

Army Tactics ~ Hidden Volley: Non-vehicle units gain shrouded on turn one. In addition, non-vehicle units that do not move in the movement phase may fire their primary small arms weapons (Bolter, Shoota, Lasgun etc) as Heavy 1 instead of their usual type, and in doing so gain the Rending special rule.

Army Tactics ~ Shadow Killers:: Gain Move through Cover and Hammer of Wrath. When assaulting out of a terrain piece which was not purchased as a fortification, gain the Furious Charge special rule. You may re-roll a failed seize the initiative.

Army Tactics ~ Bitter Mettle: Your units gain Stubborn. All character models inflict instant death on a to-wound roll of 6. In addition, your character with the highest WS must issue and accept challenges in each combat - if tied, you choose.

Army Tactics ~ To the Last Breath: When half (rounding down) of your units have been destroyed, the remaining units gain Fearless.

Army Tactics ~ Tactical Flexibility: Gain the Adamantium Will special rule. In addition, once per game you may select a number of non-vehicle units equal to the turn number and give them one of the following special rules (they must all recieve the same rule): Counter-Attack, Monster Hunter, Tank Hunter, Hatred, Skyfire, Interceptor.

Army Tactics ~ Sudden Assault: Any unit in your army that is arriving from deep strike may re-roll 1's when rolling to arrive. Once per game, your non-vehicle units may count all of their Rapid Fire, Assault, Salvo and Heavy weapons as Twin Linked for that shooting phase.

Army Tactics ~ Trample and Crush: Your units are immune to panic tests from shooting, and may re-roll failed pinning tests. Your units gain Crusader, and +1 to charges while in the enemy deployment zone.

Army Tactics ~ Burning Fury: The attacks of all flamer weapons wielded by non-vehicle units in your army gain +1 strength on the turn they arrive from deep strike. Hammer of Wrath attacks from Jump Infantry gain +1 Strength. In addition, add the Hand Flamer weapon to your "Ranged Weapons" list at a cost of 5 points.

Army Tactics ~ Rapid Encirclement: Your Bike models gain Skilled Rider. Fast Skimmers gain Scout. Your non-vehicle units have stubborn and may never opt to fail a morale test.

**Wyldhunt**

I like the idea of everyone getting a chapter tactic equivalent, but I'm not a fan of porting them directly from C:SM if only because it wouldfeel too cookie-cutterish and come with awkward carry overs. Your IG regiment favors flame-based weaponry? Cool. By the way, you're also semi-immune to fire because salamanders.

Having a "toolbox" of options to add to your army is a neat way to go, but I feel you risk either having some obviously superior options (bolter drill equivalent + hit & run for instance) while flavorful-but-less-useful options (like salamander flame resistance) would never get used.

Personally, I was really hoping every book would have Chapter Tactic equivalents after the 6th edition marine book came out. Formations aren't a terrible way to potentially convey flavor, but the decurion-style ones haven't felt especially fluffy and definitely haven't been well balanced (except maybe against eachother), and using detachments/formations instead of Chapter Tactics just seems relatively clunky.

You also have to keep in mind that marines are priced/designed with Chapter Tactics in mind (in theory anyway). Giving something like white scar tactics to eldar would be fluffy, but it would also be a bit too potent when combined with all their own unique advantages.

That said, I love the idea of having unique rules for running a Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue detachment. <3

**jasper76**

Before the Necron codex came out and everything was still in rumor-mode, I was thinking they were going to come out with "Dynasty Tactics" because I saw the Mephrit Dynasty and Decurion detachments, and I thought those were going to be like 2 out of many Dytansty Tactics options.

I was dissapointed it didn't happen that way, but I wouldn't have wanted a straight port of SM Chapter Tactics into the Necron codex, because those tactics are what make each chapter a special snowflake in the game.

**Sgt_Smudge**

Yeah, I like the idea of differention between subfactions, but not a direct port over. If you do it, it needs to be tailored for every main subgroup and not just a simple copypaste job, otherwise it ruins any kind of uniqueness.
For example, Cadians could have something akin to the IF tactic, but it feels too contrived and less special. And what about Dark Eldar cults or Ork klans? They don't fit any of the SM guidelines very cleanly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of which, the IG 3rd or 4th ed codex had a really awesome set of traits you could use. I'd love to see it back in action.

**Dakkamite**

Its easy enough for a group of people to sit down and hash out some unique traits. The question is how many people would use it?

Dakka's a hell of a lot more open to such things than it was two years ago, but its still gonna get ignored, so theres not much point.

**Wyldhunt**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Yeah, I like the idea of differention between subfactions, but not a direct port over. If you do it, it needs to be tailored for every main subgroup and not just a simple copypaste job, otherwise it ruins any kind of uniqueness.
For example, Cadians could have something akin to the IF tactic, but it feels too contrived and less special. And what about Dark Eldar cults or Ork klans? They don't fit any of the SM guidelines very cleanly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of which, the IG 3rd or 4th ed codex had a really awesome set of traits you could use. I'd love to see it back in action.

I love the old traits system, but it wasn't perfect either. You ran into issues like trading out some of those Fast Attack slots you weren't going to use anyway for the ability to spam an additional Heavy Support that you want to take as many of as possible. It wasn't a terrible toolbox though, and it was a great way for players to represent their own creative backstories into the game.

**spiralingcadaver**

Dakkamite wrote:
Whats ridiculous about it?

Because things balanced around an above-average statline/smallish model count army that's priced around taking one of several upgrades probably would run in to some balance problems when being directly applied to... not that.

**Jambles**

Lance845 wrote:
I could see nids getting Hive fleet genetic strains.

Especially if it was tied into Synapse or something.

Like, picking a genetic strain that makes it so Nids in synapse gain additional benefits, or synapse is larger radius. Boosting shooting or melee or whatever. Would help you to build Hive fleets geared more towards particular units and tactics.

I like this idea: like the way synapse works in Dawn of War, i.e. different synapse units give different buffs to the units under their "control".

**Wyldhunt**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Dakkamite wrote:
Whats ridiculous about it?
Because things balanced around an above-average statline/smallish model count army that's priced around taking one of several upgrades probably would run in to some balance problems when being directly applied to... not that.

This is pretty much my concern with directly porting the chapter tactics over to other factions. Marines are the generalists around which other armies are balanced. They do everything moderately well, but they're not amazing. Chapter tactics give them a small-but-significant boost in one area or another to, theoretically, put them on par with other factions. Which only really makes sense if you assume various factions are actually balanced against one another, but that's the theory. Giving those benefits to other armies that are, theoretically, already balanced around not having them threatens to overpower that faction. Which is less of an issue when you're giving free Iron Hands FNP to your cybork army but more of an issue when you're giving "shuriken drill" to eldar.

A lot of the new formations have the potential to be our source of "chapter tactics," but it just feels less elegant to me. A spirit host is more restrictive than simply saying, "Wraith units in an Iyanden formation are troops and have battle focus."

I was really hoping they were going to give a Chapter Tactics equivalent to all factions after 6th edition marines came out. :(

**lord_blackfang**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Dakkamite wrote:
Whats ridiculous about it?
Because things balanced around an above-average statline/smallish model count army that's priced around taking one of several upgrades probably would run in to some balance problems when being directly applied to... not that.

Let's not pretend that Space Marines are actually paying for Chapter Tactics.

I wouldn't just give access to CT to everyone, but it would be nice if other armies had some sub-faction differentiation again. I liked the old pick-your-own Space Marine traits and IG Doctrines.