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This is a CAD + Aspect Hosts utilizing a Falcon Cloudstrike for a crippling beta strike. The rest of the force is dedicated to ensuring all my eggs aren't in one basket, while also focusing on anti-infantry / light armor, as the three fire dragon squads and triple falcon load out can statistically drop at least three imperial knights in a single round, possibly four with above average rolls. Not that I anticipate three or four knights, however the math is simply impressive. Giving Fire Dragons BS 5 and a sound delivery system has been better statistically for me than wraithguard when running it through the mathhammer, the assured destruction special rule really pushing it over the top, getting +3 to vehicle damage role results is just a ridiculous amount of explodes results.



Combined Arms Detachment

HQ - Autarch w/ Fusion Gun (Fire Dragons)

Troops - 5x Windriders w/ 5x Scatter Lasers
Troops - 5x Windriders w/ 5x Scatter Lasers
Troops - 5x Windriders w/ 5x Scatter Lasers

Heavy Support – Falcon Squad Cloudstrike
Falcon w/ Pulse Laser & Bright Lance
Falcon w/ Pulse Laser & Bright Lance
Falcon w/ Pulse Laser & Bright Lance

- Aspect Host (BS +1)

5x Fire Dragons w/ Exarch
6x Fire Dragons w/ Exarch
6x Fire Dragons w/ Exarch

- Aspect Host (BS +1)

10x Swooping Hawks w/ Exarch
10x Warp Spiders w/ Exarch
10x Warp Spiders w/ Exarch



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I suppose I should mention for those unfamiliar with the cloudstrike rule, if you take a squad of three falcons they gain the deepstrike rule, when they enter, you can place the first falcon anywhere without scatter, and the other two automatically come in without scatter 4" from the first. So with an Autarch giving you a 2+ to come in on turn 2, it's pretty statistically impossible for them to not accomplish the better part of there intended purpose.

This seems a bit... underwhelming for 1850. You have literally 66 models to target. Going against a stout, ranged, siege list will leave you absolutely decimated (looks at Tau)

The biggest thing is you don't really need the Hawks. They are good at killing tanks and GEQs but you've got more than enough tank busting power with your hammer of Falcons.

Additionally, the Warp Spiders are kinda meh. If you intend to deepstrike them, you're placing half your army in reserves and begging to be blasted away before they arrive. Staring them on the field is equally bad because they have to get within 12", and are very fragile for how expensive they are.Better alternatives for infantry shred would be to snag some basic guardians or Dire Avengers. I highly suggest the Dire Avenger Shrine because bs 5 assault 3 rending pewpewpewpewepew will kill GEQ's and TEQ's with equal malice.

The last big hole in the list is the lack of AA response. At 1850 I can guarantee you'll stare down a fighter or two. 2 EML War Walkers can bust flyers alright, and give you the other options to put hurt on pretty much every other target they can see. But if you want a works-every-time AA murdermachine, the Crimson Hunter is one of the best arial combatants in the game. And a side note if you were intending to use the Hawks as AA, Hawks aren't nearly as mobile as a jet, and you can't rely on enemy's incompetence to counter them.

I disagree about the warp spiders with ya will, they are a great unit.

I like it, but Id suggest dropping one of the fire dragon squads for another scat bike unit. 2 squads should be all you need at 1850


Automatically Appended Next Post:
even if you changed them to dire avengers... actually that would be really slick. give you the deepstrike with 3 different targets and the ability to deploy the right shooting vs the right targets.

 Will1541 wrote:
This seems a bit... underwhelming for 1850. You have literally 66 models to target. Going against a stout, ranged, siege list will leave you absolutely decimated (looks at Tau)

The biggest thing is you don't really need the Hawks. They are good at killing tanks and GEQs but you've got more than enough tank busting power with your hammer of Falcons.

Additionally, the Warp Spiders are kinda meh. If you intend to deepstrike them, you're placing half your army in reserves and begging to be blasted away before they arrive. Staring them on the field is equally bad because they have to get within 12", and are very fragile for how expensive they are.Better alternatives for infantry shred would be to snag some basic guardians or Dire Avengers. I highly suggest the Dire Avenger Shrine because bs 5 assault 3 rending pewpewpewpewepew will kill GEQ's and TEQ's with equal malice.

The last big hole in the list is the lack of AA response. At 1850 I can guarantee you'll stare down a fighter or two. 2 EML War Walkers can bust flyers alright, and give you the other options to put hurt on pretty much every other target they can see. But if you want a works-every-time AA murdermachine, the Crimson Hunter is one of the best arial combatants in the game. And a side note if you were intending to use the Hawks as AA, Hawks aren't nearly as mobile as a jet, and you can't rely on enemy's incompetence to counter them.

Where to begin, I have to admit, I just fundamentally disagree with the bulk of your assessment here.

66 models, yes, putting out 130 shots, more than half of which at BS 5, which doesn't include the cloudstrike or the units inside, which is nine str 8 ap 2 shots from the vehicles, and eighteen str 8 ap 1 melta shots from the passengers. The model count is medium, not small, and the offensive output is gargantuan.

The Hawks are a paltry 170 points for thirty BS 5 shots, a str 4 ap 4 ignores cover large blast at BS 6, haywire grenades for anything from normal tanks to super heavies, an 18" standard move plus battlefocus, plus free haywire attacks against flyers in the movement phase that hit on a 4+. They are an absurd bargain. And I completely disagree with your final statement on them being ineffective AA, two words, vector dancer, or lack thereof. Yes, against eldar or deldar flyers the hawks wont reliably connect with the them, but flyers without vector dancer are surprisingly clumsy, they lack the agility to avoid the hawks huge movement, and this has borne out in game after game for me. Also, a couple of flyers often end of being ineffectual if there supporting ground force is heavily neutered, which this list is designed to do.

Warp Spiders are kind of meh and fragile? Again, I just don't know how to respond to this seriously. At 19 points per model their hardly expensive when you consider their extremely fast movement and BS 5 shooting, two shots each hitting on 2's, and most often wounding on 2's, basically with rending. You say fragile, yet they have a 3+ save which in eldar terms might as well be terminator armor lol, battlefocus coupled with incredible mobility to stay out of harms way, and the new flickerjump rule which can often take them out of range, out of LoS, or into good cover. They are the opposite of fragile when taken in context, and there offensive output is the opposite of meh, especially against standard to low initiative armies (looks at Tau).

And finally the suggestion for EML Walkers, 180 points for four str 7 skyfire shots on an AV10 open topped platform sounds like the opposite of competitive to me, and just extremely poor value imo.

@ ninety0ne I agree using one large unit of Dire Avengers in the cloudstrike instead of all three being fire dragons could be a very good idea. I'll certainly consider it.

it would be tons of fun to play against as I have never ever seen a falcon on the table. It would absolutely flatten my black Templar list but my tau would laugh hysterically as my firebase support cadre shreds your firedragons and your Falcons. So basically a Rock Paper Scissors approach more than a take all comers.

Well if you're referring to an interceptor heavy list, which is basically Tau, then yes, interceptor heavy tau are a good counter. I don't write counterless lists, and I would argue that most TAC lists, which I still believe this to be, aren't ever completely TAC, no list is counterless. However I would point out for this list in particular, against an interceptor heavy list, I have the option of deploying the entire force on the table - I'm not saying this would happen often, but against a particular tau build, I could see it really neutering much of there advantage.

It is a one trick pony. Whatever is 12 inches from ur landing site is dead ... but against anything NOT heavy armour... ?? Well you already know.

Look. If you like falcons cloudstrike potential that much just use them as posh hornets that can teleport.. there is no need to put so much in them and they do 9 shots a turn and have 9 hull points.. pretty mean even without a payload.. if you add shuriken canon they can be good allrounders..

Agreed, and again, there is flexibility in the way even the current list can be used. If there isn't a juicy target for the strike they can be deployed normally with there cargo hiding inside until an opportunity arises. A natural example would a big horde army without much armor or high priority targets, like Orks for example, though mechanized Orks would really fold to this, but lets say green tide or the like - even that list will have a hefty warboss unit, perfectly reasonable to spring the dragons on them midway through the game. My point is, it's a hard counter to a lot of potential lists in the meta, and perfectly serviceable and flexible against most anything.

Perhaps I should rephrase some of what I said. I was tired last night and it didn't come out right.

Foremost, the 66 models comment. I guess I should specify that under the current build order you're starting with either 15 jet bikes on the field to be pew'd off before you call in the backup, OR you're placing a lot of models that want to deepstrike straight onto the field, rendering them less efficient.

This goes alongside my comment on the spiders and hawks. They're great, but you already have over 500 points in reserves from the Falcons and Dragons. There are cheaper alternatives to do the job they are trying to fill. Swooping Hawks are extremely good at two things. The first, killing GEQs. This is with the templates and the lasguns. The second, killing tanks. This is through the Haywire. The reason I say scrap them is because their role is simply ineffective IN THIS LIST. You're placing points into these models purely for their anti infantry output which is all-in-all mediocre in comparison the units more purposed for this. Dire Avengers can kill foot soldiers more safely due to the longer range guns, and as effectively through matched weight of stronger shots still and bs5 and with Rending. This is like mixing the Hawks and spiders into one, making it cheaper, and making it safer. Additionally, Dire Avengers WANT to start on the field, so you stunt the issue of being tabled turn one.

I say fragile for the Spiders because 19 points buys you a unit that must be in melee range to put out damage, is single wound, toughness 3, and only has no competent duelist. Sure, you wiped out the team of grey hunter for 160 points. Now watch your 200 point team be shredded by 90 points of blood claws. They have little kite potential against melee terrors, and have to snuggle up to your enemy to do anything. They do their alpha-striking deletion job well, but this list has too much of that already.

No, Hawks can't AA against anyone competent. Your typical fighter tactic is to "circle" the board, turning near the table edges and keeping a square pattern of movement with the square board. If you drop hawks in front, the fighter will just speed up, fly past you, and because it's able to move well over 18" you can't catch it. It then kites you in a similar manner for the rest of the game. Hawk AA requires you to cross over a unit that goes faster and is henceforth ineffective.

As for the War Walkers, never underestimate the sturdiness of JSJ. War Walkers having 48" range bubbles and relatively small and hideable chassis allows them to hide behind a big rock, jump out, sling the rockets, and jump back. So yeah, AV 10 w/ 2 HP seems bad, but they can't be seen and (by extent) can't be shot. And when there are no fliers, they double as Anti infantry with blast templates, and AT with Krak Missiles. These are very competitive and extremely effective because they threaten everything and are guaranteed to get back their points. Also note they come stock with an Inv save so they do have resistances to that sneaky team with one meltagun. And if the enemy dedicates a melta-pod or equivalent to killing them, then laugh because it's not directed at your tanks anymore.

Your point on first turn vulnerabilities is taken, and as stated in previous posts, the list retains the flexibility to adjust to a potential tabling on turn 1, if it looks like it could go that way deploy half and half, or some amount, you're not forced into anything.

I love dire avengers, you don't have to sell me on there merits, and again I mentioned previously that they could be a fine inclusion. However, you do slightly misrepresent them. They are still a short ranged unit at 18" gun range with 6" movement plus battlefocus, considerably slower than hawks and spiders, with an even weaker chassis than spiders. As such I prefer to have a delivery system for them, a la wave serpent. I would consider deploying them on the table sans ride and slogging them forward, but only in a true foot slogging list, never as a singular unit lagging behind everything else in the backfield.

I take your point on what hawks excel at, but reject the notion that that role is wasted in this list. There the catch all, they come in and lend anti infantry in a far corner if needed, or go after a scouting tank that's far afield of my cloudstrike. That's the point, they have such great mobility, and such great utility, that they will most often compliment a list, not slow it. And I'll use this blurb to also address your continued anti air argument. If the Hawks cause a non vector dancing flyer to circle the board in a large square pattern, great, eldar are far too agile to fall prey to a clumsy flyer priced into staying on a less than ideal trajectory to avoid my large unit of hawks with huge threat range.

Pointing out that spiders are a single wound toughness 3 unit is like suggesting half the 40k universe can't be used unless firing a long range weapon, or in a transport. Which is why I used the term in context. There mobility on both players turn bolsters there defenses beyond what there statline would suggest. When you say they have to be in melee range to be affective I assume you understand you're either being disingenuous or hyperbolic, but certainly not serious. Yes, there guns have a 12" range per the statline, but in context, they have a battlefocus move after shooting, and the ability to make a huge warpjump in either the movement or assault phase at 2D6+6 inches, so to assume they have to come within 12" to be effective then sit there with there pants down is silly. Not to mention, again, the ability to use the same long warpjump on your opponents turn. Now I understand you can't use it for a declared charge, only shooting, so if you see that the only way to effectively shoot a unit down is to expose yourself to a guaranteed charge the following turn, DON'T DO IT LOL. Pick a different target or rethink your approach.

Finally, I don't underestimate the efficacy of JSJ, as the entire race is practically built on it. My point is that total offensive output for total cost is low and lopsided for an extremely fragile frame that is relying entirely on run distance for survivability. My only caveat to this being the warhost, a guaranteed 6" battlefocus does enhance there worth considerably.

@peteralmo, Agree with most of what you're saying, especially war walkers with EML being overpriced for what they bring.

ConanMan wrote:
It is a one trick pony. Whatever is 12 inches from ur landing site is dead ... but against anything NOT heavy armour... ?? Well you already know.

Look. If you like falcons cloudstrike potential that much just use them as posh hornets that can teleport.. there is no need to put so much in them and they do 9 shots a turn and have 9 hull points.. pretty mean even without a payload.. if you add shuriken canon they can be good allrounders..

I agree with ConanMan, I feel the cloudstrike has better potential if equipped with Star cannons for heavy infantry or Scatter Lasers for hordes. If between the 3 dragon squads coming out a vehicle/MC isn't dead then you have other things to worry about.

I could certainly see adjusting the loadouts on the Falcons, or even one of the groups inside, if you felt the meta would be more infantry and less armor. I think it's important to remember though that the rest of the list is all pretty much anti infantry. And if you do face a few land raiders, a few knights, or an av 13 wall from necrons, the current loadout will do nicely.