Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Invisibility is hands down the most overpowered ability in the game right now. This spell alone makes all blast/template weapons obsolete and makes you typically about 80% more resilient to everything else. This spell can not be allowed to exist any more. I'm so tired of being "forced" to use it and "forced" to expect it - competitively. It needs a change.

My proposed change is simple. Make invisibility treat all shooters BS as BS1(before BS modifiers). This would still be a really strong ability BUT it has counters - IE flamers/blasts. The exact weapons which should be good at killing targets you can't actually see and Tau for example could marker light their targets to buff up their BS - Also ofc - close combat attacks (I imagine something like the preditor invis - it's easy to see them when they are moving up close). Would Invis still be the best spell in the game? Yeah...it would still be great. Probably at about endurance power level. Then again - I don't really care if the spell is used or not. Theres plenty of other spells that can be used in their place and there are lots that are probably too good but don't exactly break the game - just use those instead.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/40k-faq/

"For ITC format events, The Invisibility psychic power is altered to read: units shooting at the Invisible unit do so at BS1, and hit it in melee on a 5+."

It's been done.

That's a good change. Otherwise, invisibility is a horrible pain in the neck.

As pointed out, ITC already handles it that way. It's a good bandaid for the power, but I'd probably rather they just treat it like Veil of Tears or one of the baby-invisibility powers like the new Dark Angels one or the one from phantasmancy (Mind Fog?)

How are you gona protect a 20 strong csm star or your helbrute squadron against d-scythes and apocalyptic blasts without invisibility? Invis is not the problem. There are plenty of ways to deal with it.

 koooaei wrote:
How are you gona protect a 20 strong csm star or your helbrute squadron against d-scythes and apocalyptic blasts without invisibility? Invis is not the problem.

It's not the problem, but it's one of them. D-scythes aren't fun to deal with, but neither is a horde of power armor that you can't fire blasts on and that ignores 5/6ths of your to-hit rolls.

^This

The solution to bs and broken rules should not be *more* bs and broken rules.

Ideally Invis also would not affect melee - if a power makes you that hard to shoot but leaves you vulnerable to melee, that far more tactical than "immune to everything"

BS1 and hitting on a 5+ in CC would be a massive improvement to things. I am fed up of units of Terminators and Space Marines being able to quite literally walk right up to my tanks and heavy weapons with a near impunity to the masses of guns pointing their way. Normally a space marine squad vanishes in the face of three Leman Russ Battle Tanks but with invisibility in play I am reduced to throwing shots from the hull and coaxial guns at them in the desperate and faint hope that I achieve something. So far the only solution has been to drop a big template on a nearby squad and pray for a lucky scatter roll resulting in the invisible squad being hit.

GW needs to think before they implement dickery like this.

 pretre wrote:
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/40k-faq/

"For ITC format events, The Invisibility psychic power is altered to read: units shooting at the Invisible unit do so at BS1, and hit it in melee on a 5+."

It's been done.

Thanks for pointing that out. That is awesome - I think it is the correct fix, it's maybe even to generous on CC but at least rerolls put you at a decent to hit rate against the invis target. This doesn't help me play with my friends though - all they gotta do is point to the spell in the rule book and I look like a massive D bag or a complainer (I'm really trying not to be that guy) but I want to have fun at this game. Why can't we get a fix for this from GW? Current invis is beyond absurd.

Wyldhunt wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
How are you gona protect a 20 strong csm star or your helbrute squadron against d-scythes and apocalyptic blasts without invisibility? Invis is not the problem.

It's not the problem, but it's one of them. D-scythes aren't fun to deal with, but neither is a horde of power armor that you can't fire blasts on and that ignores 5/6ths of your to-hit rolls.

I'd rather shoot a bunch of Invis Chaos Marines than multiple Invis Wraithknight bs.

I've always thought it should be identical to Blind, minus all those immunities.

WS/BS1 when attacking. Possibly reroll direct hits with blasts, too (not "always scatter"), but that should happen on Blind, too.

That said, ITC already has an answer that most seem to agree with. I'd back the consensus. That change should work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Also, any time a change is discussed for Invis, what else does it apply to? Harlie reverse-Invis? Likely. Deathleaper? Probably not.)

(Finally, Marker Lights work on Snapshots, so they affect Invis anyways.)

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
How are you gona protect a 20 strong csm star or your helbrute squadron against d-scythes and apocalyptic blasts without invisibility? Invis is not the problem.

It's not the problem, but it's one of them. D-scythes aren't fun to deal with, but neither is a horde of power armor that you can't fire blasts on and that ignores 5/6ths of your to-hit rolls.

I'd rather shoot a bunch of Invis Chaos Marines than multiple Invis Wraithknight bs.

Well yeah. Me too. I'd still rather not have to deal with current invisibility at all though. Stupid spell on stupid unit is worse than stupid spell on reasonable-to-lackluster unit, but that doesn't give stupid spell a pass.