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Hey everyone

First off, I have to say that I've always loved Blob Guard. Tons of Infantry slowly marching across the table, supported by artillery, and grinding down the foe in weight of numbers. I've had quite a lot of success with my Renegades & Heretics traitor guard (and posted some bat-reps here and here, for some shameless self-promotion). However, a few tournaments I'm planning on attending in the future has set a no-FW restriction. This frustrates me to no end, but it just means that I have to go back to running my traitor guard as Imperial Guard, as in the old days.

The IG (AM) Codex is, sadly, lacking. So when I saw the new SM Formation, the Librarius Conclave, my interest was caught. Being able to get off successful warp charges on a 2+ is pretty huge, especially when getting enough warp charges to reliably cast powers seems to be the big problem for armies that aren't GK, Eldar or Daemons. By putting the conclave in units of Conscripts or Infantry Platoons, they are also well-protected by ablative wounds, and IG is an army that really shines through buffs. They give ATSKNF to the unit (if I am not mistaken?), so you don't have to worry about being swept in combat if you lose your priest (or just dont bring one, in order to GtG).

Some things I have thought about so far:
-Running Tigurius, 3-4xLibrarians (lvl 2) and perhaps Coteaz - 11+D6 warp charges, pretty good odds at getting the powers you want with Tiggy's re-roll on picking powers.
-Running 5 White Scar Librarians, perhaps spread out in several blobs. From what I understand you only lose the Chapter Tactics if you mix two different CTs in a unit, not if you have them mixed with a unit without Chapter Tactics, like an IG Blob. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but Hit&Run could be very useful (not against assault armies that want to charge you for Rage etc., but I see many other uses)
-Possibly even Raven Guard to give your blob first-turn cover?

The best rolls are, imo, on the Divination Tree. Misfortune, Prescience (guaranteed), Forewarning and Perfect Timing are all great. Invisibility and Shrouding are solid too. Endurance deserves mention, but so much stuff just instant kills t3 guardsmen that it loses some potential. Levitation is also really cool, but the rest of Telekinesis is mediocre at best, so I don't think it's worth fishing for.

Some things to note: If you don't get Perfect Timing off, you can use Orders to get Ignore Cover. If you do get Perfect Timing off, an order like First Rank (...) could be brutal. I don't think it would be a big problem to get Misfortune, Perfect Timing and Prescience off with the available warp charges (depending on what you face, of course), and you have a good chance at rolling up all these powers too.

Let us also not forget Summoning! Throwing just 4 dice at Summoning/Incursion gives you good odds at getting it off, and low odds of perils. Summoning Horrors for more warp charges, Seekers for some fast objective-grabbing, Screamers if you get Incursion, etc. (I do run a traitor themed list after all )

A list I'm thinking about now consists of 2 blobs of 40 guardsmen, one with meltabomb sargeants, the other with lascannons, then two units of 30 and 20 conscripts, 2 void shield generators, Tiggy+3 buddies, Coteaz, 2 Wyverns, a ccs and priests.

Weakness: ot a lot of long-range shooting or anti-tank. Lack of Mobility.
Strength: A lot of surprisingly durable guardsmen with ObSec. In a meta that seems elite-focused (single-shot D and melta), I have a lot of faith in Horde armies. Ability to summon more units quite easily. Drown the table in men, and throw out a million Rending lasgun shots.


What do you think of this idea, fellow Dakkanauts? Would you be scared if you faced a list like this, or would you simply laugh and curbstomp it with 30 Eldar Jetbikes? Feedback is appreciated, thanks

I think it has the potential to be very strong. A few comments:

1) 5x Libbies in the formation is worth it I think, if you can squeeze it in without sacrificing too much. All ML2 of course. 10 rolls, with re-rolls for doubles is >90% chance of getting your primary goal power; and whatever other toys you'll end up with.

2) Speaking of goal powers, your primary want should be Invisibility. Remember, psychic focus will grant you prescience as a primaris if you simply dedicate one librarian for Divination. Invis protects you from all the things you should be scared of: flame templates, TFCs/Wyverns/Thudd Guns, close combat deathstars; et al.

3) As AWESOME as Tiggy is, I would go White Scars all day long. Hit and Run is too important for what you're doing.

Thanks for the feedback!

I agree that Invisibility is a major power for this type of list, which is actually one of the reasons for why I'm leaning towards tiggy: rolling on telepathy for him is almost guaranteed invis (closest you get for a single model who's not Loth or Be'Lakor anyways), which means that the other casters get to roll on Divination all day.

However, the Void Shields also protect them against a lot of damage (blast/templates only count as 1 hit if they touch a void shielded unit per the GW FAQ), at least in the initial turn(s).

I'm having a hard time squeezing 5 librarians into the formation if I want to run Coteaz, which I do for these reasons:
There is no direct benefit from 5 librarians over 4, I just need 3 to be within their triangle.
Coteaz is only a meltagun more in points than a bare librarian
His seize shenanigans can help a lot (I do want first turn to get off invis and other powers)
Slight protection against drop pods. If my opponent is decent he won't deep strike within 12" of Coteaz, but it still affects his freedom to deep strike, and fear of scatter.

What do you think about this list:
Astra Militarum Combined Arms Detachment (Primary Detachment)
HQ:
Company Command Squad

Priest
Priest

TROOPS:
1xPlatoon Command Squad
-4 Infantry Squads, 4xMeltabombs -
--30 Conscripts

1xPlatoon Command Squad
-4xInfantry, 4xLascannon - 280 (Sargeant as WARLORD)
--20 Conscripts -

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Wyvern -
Wyvern

FORTIFICATION:
Void Shield Generator, 3xShields
Void Shield Generator, 3xShields
Prometheum Relay Pipes -

INQUISITORIAL DETACHMENT
Coteaz -

LIBRARIUS CONCLAVE (White Scars)
Librarian, lvl 2
Librarian, lvl 2 -
Librarian, lvl 2
Librarian, lvl 2 -
Librarian, lvl 2 -


Comes to 1740 points total. 12+d6 warp charges.

Dont forget to give the librarians Force Axes for some great charge deterrent in your units. S5 ap2 with a 5/6 chance of getting Instant Death on 1 warp charge. At no additional cost. Yes please.

Also not sure if relentless confers to units but if it does then terminator armor sounds like a great investment.

I do think that in order to take the Librarian Conclave( a command formation) that you also need to take a demi-company + a support formation.

I'd suggest either the stalker formation or the armored task force.

Relentless does not spread to the unit, that's slow and purposeful.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are you buying the relay pipes? Is it in hope of getting a flame psychic power?

Also, I would love to face this with green tide, it would be a brutally fun game.

DoomShakaLaka wrote:Dont forget to give the librarians Force Axes for some great charge deterrent in your units. S5 ap2 with a 5/6 chance of getting Instant Death on 1 warp charge. At no additional cost. Yes please.

I do think that in order to take the Librarian Conclave( a command formation) that you also need to take a demi-company + a support formation.

Librarius Conclave can be a stand-alone formation, 99% certain of that.
Force Axes will go on most librarians yeah, I might run 1-2 with swords though just because that's what I have modelled

vercingatorix wrote:Relentless does not spread to the unit, that's slow and purposeful.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are you buying the relay pipes? Is it in hope of getting a flame psychic power?

Also, I would love to face this with green tide, it would be a brutally fun game.

The Relay Pipes are a mandatory tax for the Void Generator Relay System or whatever it's called. If I dont take the pipes, I can only take 1 VGS.

To be honest, I don't see much threat in the list you've posted. 4 las canons and 4 melta bombs isn't that much of a threat.

I want to give a quick shout out to sanctic demonology, especially harnessing on 2+. Hammerhand with 50 guardsmen and a priest is sex on toast, while gate of infinity lets you move more than you might otherwise. Also hard to deny.

Some of the powers you listed can be done with orders, so that saves you some warp points.

Can you use forgeworld artillery carriages? If so, those can be decent places to hide your librarians with T7 from the gun.

What you could try:
2 assault platoons (melta bombs, flamers) + priests/commissars
3 units of artillery (either medusa siege guns with breach shells or rapier laser destroyers)
5 librarians
2 platoon command squads with either melta, plasma, or flamers, depending on points and things you need. They'd like transports, but I don't know if points will allow for that. Remember that they've got orders that your assault platoons really like.

I agree that it's lacking in threat, but I'm thinking more about just out-living my opponent, grabbing objectives and flooding the board, while I try taking out important enemies through weight of fire, wyverns and misfortune. Perhaps more focus on summoning would be the way to go, for more models and proper board-flooding.

Artillery carriages are sadly unavailable. If they were, I would run a very different army, I can tell you that

Hammerhand is a really good power, that's true. Gating around with 30+ models is not really something I want to try outside of very, very friendly games though

That's the beauty of the conclave, you often won't have to choose between Sanctic and Telepathy...you can have both! And you won't always need to sacrifice casting powers in order to get the 2+. Against Necrons, Tau, other Guard, many SM builds, etc, you'll be fine on a normal 4+.

And yes, the conclave is a normal formation that can be taken by any faction. I just don't understand what is so difficult about...understanding that.

How are you getting 3 fortification slots?

Guard blobs are just not good in obj heavy missions (NOVA and ITC formats). Yes the conclave will help improved survivability and offensive capability(prescience), they are still too slow.

vercingatorix wrote:Relentless does not spread to the unit, that's slow and purposeful.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are you buying the relay pipes? Is it in hope of getting a flame psychic power?

Also, I would love to face this with green tide, it would be a brutally fun game.

The Relay Pipes are a mandatory tax for the Void Generator Relay System or whatever it's called. If I dont take the pipes, I can only take 1 VGS.

Ah, didn't know about that! That's pretty awesome actually. Where are rules for that?

And as far as teleporting blobs, you may be surprised actually. I've teleported the green tide in a competitive game and it was totally worth it, despite taking 60 dangerous terrain tests.

Dark angel librarians have their own older conclave formation and they have fearless, but you'll prolly always bring a priest anyway? Was a lot better with power field generators...

It has a potential to be a really devastating mellee blob.

Take xeno inquisitor with nades, servo sculls, liber heresius and all that stuff.
Take librarians.

Get invis or 4++
Get hammerhand
Might want levitation

Here you go, a squad with gazillion s6 bayonette attacks and s7/8 ap2 power axe attacks against fleshy bits. Rerolling to-hits/to-wounds from priests (take 2 at least). With scout and a potential 18" + 3d6 Run move if you get levitation and an order. They ARE gona be in da face turn 2. With H&R from white scars. It's an unstoppable blob of death.

They're gona murderise stuff even without hammerhand apparently. Inquisitor nades are too good to pass by. Can also go for 3++ (rerollable in mellee with priests) from psy powers if you don't like invis.

It's like greentide but choppier, shootier, faster and more durable.

vercingatorix wrote:

vercingatorix wrote:Relentless does not spread to the unit, that's slow and purposeful.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why are you buying the relay pipes? Is it in hope of getting a flame psychic power?

Also, I would love to face this with green tide, it would be a brutally fun game.

The Relay Pipes are a mandatory tax for the Void Generator Relay System or whatever it's called. If I dont take the pipes, I can only take 1 VGS.

Ah, didn't know about that! That's pretty awesome actually. Where are rules for that?

And as far as teleporting blobs, you may be surprised actually. I've teleported the green tide in a competitive game and it was totally worth it, despite taking 60 dangerous terrain tests.

effreem wrote:How are you getting 3 fortification slots?

In Stronghold Assault, there is a Fortificiation called a Void Relay Network or something like that (I don't have the book at hand so I can't double-check the name), and it consists of at least one Prometheum Pipes and up to 3 Void Shield Generators. So it's just a single fortification slot. I've run with 3 shields for my Renegades, which is a big investment in just shields. I think 2 will be the right number.

I agree with your vision of the Guard. A line of grunts marching along side armor supported by arty. Bunker Guard was always more effective, but about as fun & cinematic as yard work. Also, cool idea making Guard blobs better through the conclave.

This would be pretty good if Tiggy's warlord trait affected any unit, not just ultra marines

100 s3 bs3 w/ rerolls, ignores cover and rending dice... sound like my kind of list. Guess you could use the rending power also, but invisibility would be nice.