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Say, for example, I have a Blood Angels army, but want to take the Skyhammer Annihilation Force formation, do the units in the formation use the Blood Angels unit rules (for better or worse), or do I have to choose a C:SM Chapter that those units would belong to?

They must have Codex Space Marines chapter tactics.

The formation can only be made up of C:SM units

 jokerkd wrote:
They must have Codex Space Marines chapter tactics.

The formation can only be made up of C:SM units

That is what I was figuring, just wanted to make sure. That particular formation, which I have zero intent of running, would be especially brutal with Blood Angels (kinda, the Dev Squads wouldn't be able to take Grav Cannons, but the Assault Squads could take Meltaguns).

Not that I am doubting you, but can you point me to the rule that says what you are saying?

page 118 of the BRB shows the different symbols for space marines and blood angels.

page 114 of the SM codex shows how the symbol is used to denote the faction of the data sheet entry

 jokerkd wrote:
page 118 of the BRB shows the different symbols for space marines and blood angels.

page 114 of the SM codex shows how the symbol is used to denote the faction of the data sheet entry

I kinda figured, but wanted to be sure.

Note, however, that there is nothing stopping you from attaching BA characters to C:SM formations, allowing the BA characters to keep their rules and the C:SM units keep their chapter tactics. But we'll leave the arguments about those characters benefiting from the formation rules in the appropriate threads for that.

Sadly, the icons have never been defined as a restriction and not supported by anything. More so when many formations actually list a faction as a restriction, so saying that some white space filler is a restriction is a pure player made rule.

To take a formation you jus have to fill the formation with the listed units and abide by any restriction listed.

So the description in every (i think) 7th ed codex is wrong?

Where does it say the icons define something or that it even limits a formation? And if that is true, why is a faction restriction listed when the ice at the top supposedly is the restriction?

It simply says the symbol at the top represents the faction of data sheet entry.

And does it say that is a restriction anywhere? If it was, why is a faction listed as a restriction under the "restriction" section of some formations? Where are we told that the heading is a limit/restriction?

The section on Datasheets in Codex: Space Marines explains what the formation symbol means, specifically:

"Faction: The unit's Faction is shown here by a symbol. All units that have this symbol, which includes all the units described in this book, have the Space Marines faction."

It makes sense that this applies at a formation level in the case of formation datasheets.

Your argument is essentially, "The formation datasheet says it's a Codex: Space Marines faction formation, but it doesn't say I can't choose the units within that formation from another faction's army list entries, so I must be able to!"

Which of course is silly.

 hisdudeness wrote:
And does it say that is a restriction anywhere? If it was, why is a faction listed as a restriction under the "restriction" section of some formations? Where are we told that the heading is a limit/restriction?

So can I use Necron Warriors in any Tyranid formation that lists Warriors as both units are called "Warriors"?

Why not to go further
Juts because Land Speeder has battlefield role Fast Attack what is stopping you to take it as Troops. It's just an icon

I guess I had never paid attention to the faction symbols at the top since I only have access to three or four Blood Angels formations. That makes perfect sense now though. Would have been cool if it worked though.

Wow, let's make stupid examples that make even less sense than your point.

 hisdudeness wrote:
Wow, let's make stupid examples that make even less sense than your point.

No more stupid than claiming you can pull for example Blood Angels faction units with Codex: Blood Angels rules into what are explicitly clearly Codex: Space Marines faction formations.

Instead of complaining though, why don't you try to actually contribute in a meaningful manner? Or is it simply that you've been proven wrong and you're unwilling and/or unable to simply admit it maturely?

Really? So a formation says it requires assault marines and lists no restriction on faction in the formation rules, it's silly to think any flavor of marine can't fill it?

The only thing that matters is the called out box that lists requirements and restrictions.

 hisdudeness wrote:
Really? So a formation says it requires assault marines and lists no restriction on faction in the formation rules, it's silly to think any flavor of marine can't fill it?

The only thing that matters is the called out box that lists requirements and restrictions.

So Necron WARRIORS in a Tyranid formations that names Warriors as a unit option? Is that your claim?

The Formation tells you the faction as well as the units why ignore the faction?

 hisdudeness wrote:
Really? So a formation says it requires assault marines and lists no restriction on faction in the formation rules, it's silly to think any flavor of marine can't fill it?

The only thing that matters is the called out box that lists requirements and restrictions.

So the icon that dictates thiis is a Space Marines Faction Formation isnt a rule?

The rules (ha!) disagree with you

No, you see we have Factions. Blood Angels are Blood Angels Faction, Space Marines are Space Marines Faction. This are totally different and separate armies.
We have Datasheets in our Codexies. This datasheets states what factions are they. It is marked with faction logo on top.

According to your understanding I (as vanilla SM player) can take your Baal Predator instead of my generic Predator into my SM CAD because that Faction icon in your Codex:Blood Angels and in mine are meaningless. And we all know that is not true. Read about Factions in BRB.

Also, the Datasheet on Codex: Space Marines page 114 describes how the Army Lists Entries and Formations in this Codex works. It is described by example, and we have that (1):
1. Faction: The unit’s Faction is shown here by a symbol. All units that have this symbol, which includes all the units described in this book, have the Space Marines Faction.

We don't have example of Formation Datasheet, but it is build the same way, same rules applies, so wording in example could be look like this:
1. Faction: The Formation's Faction is shown here by a symbol. All Formations that have this symbol, which includes all the Formations described in this book, have the Space Marines Faction.

Formations in Codex: Space Marines are for Space Marines Faction units, Formations in Codex: Blood Angels are for Blood Angels Faction units.

You cannot mix Factions. Thiese are completly different armies. Similar in some way, but completly different.

 hisdudeness wrote:
And does it say that is a restriction anywhere? If it was, why is a faction listed as a restriction under the "restriction" section of some formations? Where are we told that the heading is a limit/restriction?

"The rules don't say I can't!"

This is the most annoying argument ever made. If you've been forced to resort to it, your argument is immediately false. The rules don't say I can't place my models back on the board after you've killed them and use them next turn, but that doesn't mean I can do it. The rules system is permissive: this means you may only do things you are expressly allowed to do or that the rules imply you can do. You are not allowed to do anything else."The rules don't say I can't!"

How to have an intelligent rules debate - Recommended reading material for everyone in YMDC.

The only point someone could argue (and I think they would be wrong) is that BA/DA/SW could use SM formations since they are SM, but SM can't use BA formations since they are not BA. It is pretty clear cut though, if your army icon does not match the formation, you can't use it.

The formation datasheets list the army list entries that can be used. While some army list entries might have the same name as other entries in a different faction they are not interchangeable. While not clearly stated the faction of the army list entries in a formation should match the faction of the formation (if it has one).