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I think GW should get rid of her she is really unessecary and brings a whole new meaning to grim dark.

Care to expand.

Is this a troll post or are you one of those who thinks Slaanesh is just about the lust thing?

Troll? No, only on TF2

But seriously she really has no meaning if she is just about pleasure. Pleasure what?

Go read Tome of Excess. Too early to say anything else.

Alright I will read it

 Abanshee wrote:
Troll? No, only on TF2

But seriously she really has no meaning if she is just about pleasure. Pleasure what?

Slaanesh is the Chaos God of Excess moreso then pleasure. Anything taken to an Extreme, pursued to perfection, is the meaning of Slaanesh. In this way, ALL the other Chaos Gods have facets of Slaanesh in them. The Joy of Slaughter? That feeling you get when something goes ''Just as Planned''? Even dedicated your life to spreading disease, all of them are an action taken to an Excess to which someone takes great Joy.

That is Slaanesh, without Her the other Chaos Gods would have much less depth. ''This guy likes to hit people, this is a wizard, this guy is...smelly? '' but with Slaanesh being there She shows the other Gods to be what they are, emotions taken to Extremes that are unable to change in anyway. E.G, The Great Game wouldn't happen if GW just retconned out Slaanesh, because who's to say a God wouldn't just change there tactic?

Not to mention how much of the established Fluff is based on her, E.G the Fall of the Eldar. Which is arguably one of the most pivotal moments in 40k fluff after the War in the Heavens.

 Abanshee wrote:
Troll? No, only on TF2

But seriously she really has no meaning if she is just about pleasure. Pleasure what?

Yeah she/he is not about just pleasure. Slaanesh is about excess in everything and takes a lot of joy from corrupting and twisting once pure and proud warriors into their followers. They're the ones Slaanesh likes the best.

But everything from greed, such as a corrupt governor stealing money from their planet for themselves. Slowly moving along to over indulging and living in excessive extravagance. Slowly continuing along the path further and further towards falling entirely to Slaanesh. To pride such as a guardsman training harder than everyone else, making sure everything they do is perfect and taking a lot of pride in their achievements. The codex (5th I think and 6th probably recycled it) covers how all 7 of those "deadly sins" fall into Slaanesh's power and each is a test on the way to their palace. Things like you're the most famous person there among a ton of others, but if you give into it you become increasingly paranoid about them until that ends you. An area filled with treasure that will turn you into gold if you try to steal it I think. A nice beach where if you stop to relax for even a moment you'll never get up again.

Slaanesh is also the god that basically kicked the other three out of their screwing around and got them all more focused, while still remaining the weakest of the 4.

 Abanshee wrote:
I think GW should get rid of her she is really unessecary and brings a whole new meaning to grim dark.

No.

If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

It's not like Slaanesh is even there in the first place. GW is all about Khorne and to a lesser extent, Nurgle, these days. Probably because those are the most simplistic of the Chaos gods, relatively speaking, and making more Tzeentch and Slaanesh stuff is too hard for their minds.

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

I just googled Nanking. Thanks for ruining me.

Um... no.

The only way you're getting rid of Slaanesh is with Ynnead and that'll only happen in a 40K End Times equivalent (shudder).

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

That'd do it, they never really go into detail with what happens when the Emperor's Children take a civilian population and showing it would probably disturb a lot of people judging by reactions to the Daemonculaba (or however it's spelt) in the Ultramarines series.

TCF wrote:
The only way you're getting rid of Slaanesh is with Ynnead and that'll only happen in a 40K End Times equivalent (shudder).

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

That'd do it, they never really go into detail with what happens when the Emperor's Children take a civilian population and showing it would probably disturb a lot of people judging by reactions to the Daemonculaba (or however it's spelt) in the Ultramarines series.

Just say the Emperor's Children ravaged the entire population. Literally. IMO as I've complained before, the problem is that Chaos Space Marines don't feel very evil compared to real life events. While they kill in far greater numbers, the methods of the slaughter are rather mundane compared to actions of real life parties. GW's rather unimaginative and fails to be horrifying when it comes to mass slaughter. Any child can say a bunch of bad dudes came and made all the people ded. Khorne and Slaanesh would be far more terrifying if Khornates started having competitions of "how many prisoners of war can you decapitate without rest" while Emperor's Children just go to town on a planet. Doesn't have to be explicit either, just a Space Marine or Guardsmen finding some recorded video of a survivor recounting the horrors they witnessed before throwing themselves off a cliff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

I just googled Nanking. Thanks for ruining me.

You didn't know about Nanking? So much for the lauded British education system.

So which ever other god conquers Slanny will be at that point unstoppable. As in reached perfection and would exhibit perfection in their domains. Or if Slanny topples another god, it is game over.

Being the above is an unlikely scenario, If a chaos legion worshiped the Slannster and another god wouldn't they have an advantage. Chaos isn't very chaotic, if they can't violently blend here and there.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

I just googled Nanking. Thanks for ruining me.

Isn't history wonderful?

For further pits of despair you don't usually hear about in school, check out the Khmer Rouge or the Holodomor. Your faith in the basic goodness of humanity will be irrevocably shattered!

Back on topic... Slaanesh is just fine. Is the OP's post related to the rumour that the symbol has changed in Age of Sigmar or something?

 Jambles wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

I just googled Nanking. Thanks for ruining me.

Isn't history wonderful?

For further pits of despair you don't usually hear about in school, check out the Khmer Rouge or the Holodomor. Your faith in the basic goodness of humanity will be irrevocably shattered!

Back on topic... Slaanesh is just fine. Is the OP's post related to the rumour that the symbol has changed in Age of Sigmar or something?

Also take a look at what WW2 Russians did to women that they rescued from concentration camps... or heck, what they did in 'Haus Derlehm'. If you're interested in what Western armies have done there's always the ANZAC.


Obviously GW will keep Slaanesh. Personally I find it the most interesting of the chaos gods and the one that seems like it would be the most appealing to the average Imperial citizen. All humans have the desire for pleasure (whatever kind), unless this can be stopped, Slaanesh will continue to exist in some form.

I think the OP might be referring to all the 40k blog sites that seem to hate Slaanesh.

To be fair Nanking, whilst being utterly abhorrent, pales in comparison to the Mongol invasion of China and the rest of Asia. What happened in Nanking was also an accepted outcome of seige warfare in the medieval ages. Hell even as recently as the Napoleonic wars where the French armies raped and pillaged in the name of 'living off the land' and even the British at Badajoz, despite it being an allied town and any looters being hung by the provosts.
If we do look at the 20th century, I'd argue the Holocoust, the Carpet Bombing of Dresden, the atomic atrocities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Stalin's Purges and the genocide commited in the Bosnian war, amongst others, make for much more shocking reading. I am not saying that Nanking isn't absolutely horrendous, but if you want to lose your faith in humanity - there are even worse sources.
And lets not bring up current times with Assad, IS and Boko Haram.

Poly Ranger wrote:
To be fair Nanking, whilst being utterly abhorrent, pales in comparison to the Mongol invasion of China and the rest of Asia. What happened in Nanking was also an accepted outcome of seige warfare in the medieval ages. Hell even as recently as the Napoleonic wars where the French armies raped and pillaged in the name of 'living off the land' and even the British at Badajoz, despite it being an allied town and any looters being hung by the provosts.
If we do look at the 20th century, I'd argue the Holocoust, the Carpet Bombing of Dresden, the atomic atrocities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Stalin's Purges and the genocide commited in the Bosnian war, amongst others, make for much more shocking reading. I am not saying that Nanking isn't absolutely horrendous, but if you want to lose your faith in humanity - there are even worse sources.
And lets not bring up current times with Assad, IS and Boko Haram.

I'm pretty sure Medieval Knights didn't hold competitions of how many prisoners of war you can decapitate before passing out from exhaustion like in Nanking.

Comparing one evil to another doesn't make the first evil any less so.

We must never forget possibly the worst war crime of them all... Agent Orange.

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

They need to make a novel wherein they graphically describe an Emperor's Children assault on a single colony. Not a major world, just a colony out on the fringes with minimal defenses. Include the mutilations, the raping, the torture, all of it. As graphic as livingly possible. Then people MIGHT come to see Slaanesh and the EC as less of a comic and more of a fethed up thing of darkness.

Edit: I just googled Nanking. They need to do something worse than that, and from the POV of the both the civilians and the EC. Graphically describe the EC wearing intestines as scarves (ok, that just sounds funny to me, is that bad?)
WARNING, only read the next part if you want to know what the EC would do to civilians in an actual raid I think I went too far with that last one...

Anyways, point is, the Slaanesh worshippers are meant to be fethed up pleasure-seeking masochists and sadists who love nothing more than screwing and torturing (aka Dark Eldar, only humans), but they are incredibly tame in all reports. I don't care if the target audience is 12-year-olds, I want a bad guy I can fething hate! Nanking-like raid would be a step in the right direction, but they need something worse than that.

Poly Ranger wrote:
To be fair Nanking, whilst being utterly abhorrent, pales in comparison to the Mongol invasion of China and the rest of Asia. What happened in Nanking was also an accepted outcome of seige warfare in the medieval ages. Hell even as recently as the Napoleonic wars where the French armies raped and pillaged in the name of 'living off the land' and even the British at Badajoz, despite it being an allied town and any looters being hung by the provosts.
If we do look at the 20th century, I'd argue the Holocoust, the Carpet Bombing of Dresden, the atomic atrocities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Stalin's Purges and the genocide commited in the Bosnian war, amongst others, make for much more shocking reading. I am not saying that Nanking isn't absolutely horrendous, but if you want to lose your faith in humanity - there are even worse sources.
And lets not bring up current times with Assad, IS and Boko Haram.

I'm sorry but there seems to be a recent trend of hand wringing over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and it really makes me angry.

1) It wasn't just the Rape of Nanking. The Japanese military forced hundreds of thousands of Korean women into sex slavery ("comfort women"), herded thousands of Chinese up to torture to death for mostly aimless science experiments in Unit 731, and were ridiculously brutal to prisoners of war. These weren't isolated attrocities like can be found in any war, they were Japan's war policy. It's no exaggeration to say that the Showa era Japanese leadership was at least as bad as the Nazis. Yet nobody wrings hands over the bombing of Berlin, German villagers being starved, or the things the Soviets did during their invasion of Germany, and Nazis are killed for laughs all the time in movies and videogames. I guess the difference is that Japan suppresses information about their country's atrocities in their text books, and we don't learn about them in the west either. Therefore people think the Showa era was just fine and dandy, and why did we need to fight so hard to STOP it, anyway?

2) A big part of the reason for the A-Bombs being dropped was because a land invasion of Japan had projected casualties in the MILLIONS for both sides. And that very much included Japanese civilians, through the Showa government's own fault. They were training schoolkids to be child soldiers and encouraging peasants to be suicide bombers with propaganda saying Americans would EAT THEM if they caught them. The whole plan was to make the fighting as horrific, with as much death as possible, so the Americans would negotiate a truce that would leave the Showa government in power and hopefully with some of the countries they invaded. Once they realized that they couldn't hope to fight back against the A-bomb, they surrendered.

Were the bombings horrific? No doubt, but how would you have dealt with the Showa government if it were you? Let them keep brutalizing Chinese, Phillipinos, and Koreans? Launch a land invasion with more deaths on both sides?

Don't think that this rant means I hate Japanese people. I have Japanese friends, and l love them. My point is, it was a complicated situation, and a HUGE portion of the blame for what happened rests on the Showa military leaders who pushed things to that point. So when it gets dumbed down to "as bad as the Holocaust" and "mean Americans wiping out Japanese for no reason" I get a little testy.

Anyway, we're way off topic. To the OP- no, no, a thousand times no, although you're probably just trolling anyway.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

They need to make a novel wherein they graphically describe an Emperor's Children assault on a single colony. Not a major world, just a colony out on the fringes with minimal defenses. Include the mutilations, the raping, the torture, all of it. As graphic as livingly possible. Then people MIGHT come to see Slaanesh and the EC as less of a comic and more of a fethed up thing of darkness.

Edit: I just googled Nanking. They need to do something worse than that, and from the POV of the both the civilians and the EC. Graphically describe the EC wearing intestines as scarves (ok, that just sounds funny to me, is that bad?)
WARNING, only read the next part if you want to know what the EC would do to civilians in an actual raid

Spoiler:

shoving a chainsword up someone's anus and out their mouths, shoving a fist down someone's mouth and out there stomach, forcing someone to eat their own intestines and drink their own blood, raping someone through a hole that they cut in said person's kidney, then forcing said person to eat the destroyed kidney before flaying the person until he/she died, raping a person with a bottle covered in spikes, filleting somebody alive and keeping the torturee alive (THROUGH SPACE MAGICCC!!!) while he/she is also flayed, and survives (SPEHSS MAGIC), and then being disembowled and having his/her intestines get eaten by a group of starving orphan children and feth I need to stop this, this is getting demented...

I think I went too far with that last one...

Anyways, point is, the Slaanesh worshippers are meant to be fethed up pleasure-seeking masochists and sadists who love nothing more than screwing and torturing (aka Dark Eldar, only humans), but they are incredibly tame in all reports. I don't care if the target audience is 12-year-olds, I want a bad guy I can fething hate! Nanking-like raid would be a step in the right direction, but they need something worse than that.

Um. There's more tasteful ways to make such a fic without going down the SAW path.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
If anything Slaanesh and the rest of the Chaos Gods need to go darker instead of this current state, where they're semi-silly and laughable.

Then the Emperor's Children decide to reenact Nanking on an entire planet, that lingering silliness is going to die off instantly as the reader just kind of sits there and gasps.

They need to make a novel wherein they graphically describe an Emperor's Children assault on a single colony. Not a major world, just a colony out on the fringes with minimal defenses. Include the mutilations, the raping, the torture, all of it. As graphic as livingly possible. Then people MIGHT come to see Slaanesh and the EC as less of a comic and more of a fethed up thing of darkness.

Edit: I just googled Nanking. They need to do something worse than that, and from the POV of the both the civilians and the EC. Graphically describe the EC wearing intestines as scarves (ok, that just sounds funny to me, is that bad?)
WARNING, only read the next part if you want to know what the EC would do to civilians in an actual raid

Spoiler:

shoving a chainsword up someone's anus and out their mouths, shoving a fist down someone's mouth and out there stomach, forcing someone to eat their own intestines and drink their own blood, raping someone through a hole that they cut in said person's kidney, then forcing said person to eat the destroyed kidney before flaying the person until he/she died, raping a person with a bottle covered in spikes, filleting somebody alive and keeping the torturee alive (THROUGH SPACE MAGICCC!!!) while he/she is also flayed, and survives (SPEHSS MAGIC), and then being disembowled and having his/her intestines get eaten by a group of starving orphan children and feth I need to stop this, this is getting demented...

I think I went too far with that last one...

Anyways, point is, the Slaanesh worshippers are meant to be fethed up pleasure-seeking masochists and sadists who love nothing more than screwing and torturing (aka Dark Eldar, only humans), but they are incredibly tame in all reports. I don't care if the target audience is 12-year-olds, I want a bad guy I can fething hate! Nanking-like raid would be a step in the right direction, but they need something worse than that.

Um. There's more tasteful ways to make such a fic without going down the SAW path.

Meh, SAW only forced them to mutilate themselves if they were idiots (and they all were, but that's not the point), it was to teach them a (fethed-up) lesson. The EC do it for fun. There would have been a lot more raping and BDSM sex going on, and I would have gone more rape-ey with it, but I figured if I over-sexualized it the mods would get pissy. Also, SAW never had someone have all of the skin ripped off of his body, then had all of the bones ripped out, then had starving orphans feast on his innards.

You've got a seriously fethed up view on what Slaanesh is all about mate.

You don't need to graphically describe it, from a story telling perspective it would be more effective to have all that happen offscreen and the characters arrive in the aftermath. It's also waaay too tame for Emperors children.

As for Slaanesh followers. I think the important thing with Chaos is tovremember that it starts off as a good thing, Slaanesh cultists probably deriving from worlds with laws preventing certain sexual activities. The desire builds up, manifests into reality and after the civil revolt, the people end up taking it too far. Personally I'd like a book where a cult ends up allying with Chaos Marines such as Emperors children and the cultists begin to realise they're going down a path they never originally intended. Then the Imperium, who forced them into this situation in the first place, look like the good guys.

There's a picture floating round the internet which I always thought summed up Slaanesh wonderfully, without the constant focus on sexual violence that seems to be all he's about nowadays.

It was clearly a cult, everyone's lounging around being all hedonistic. There's strippers, drugs, gluttony, narcissism, probably a bit of music going, vices that appeal to the downtrodden masses who toil away their lives for an uncaring and brutal regime. In the centre of the room there's a Demonette. These people don't know the forces they're messing with, just that they enjoy the 'messing with' stage very much, so much that they are unconcerned by the potential consequences. It's real, believable, and rejects the stupid "Rape Warriors" that gets comparatively far too much attention.

Boom, first result on Google.

MarsNZ wrote:
There's a picture floating round the internet which I always thought summed up Slaanesh wonderfully, without the constant focus on sexual violence that seems to be all he's about nowadays.

It was clearly a cult, everyone's lounging around being all hedonistic. There's strippers, drugs, gluttony, narcissism, probably a bit of music going, vices that appeal to the downtrodden masses who toil away their lives for an uncaring and brutal regime. In the centre of the room there's a Demonette. These people don't know the forces they're messing with, just that they enjoy the 'messing with' stage very much, so much that they are unconcerned by the potential consequences. It's real, believable, and rejects the stupid "Rape Warriors" that gets comparatively far too much attention.

Boom, first result on Google.

I'd always envisioned the human Slaaneshi cults to be the same as the Eldar Pleasure Cults, in that they started off as all fun and games, until the Daemon showed up. Ecstacy, booze, and fun all around (sex is usually one of the easiest things to go into excess with, along with chems, which is why it would be a logical place for a Slaaneshi cult to begin), until it started to go farther and farther, until it turned into rape and BDSM, followed by actual torture, followed by Daemonettes turning up at the door, followed by massacering the populous. I highly doubt that the Daemons would be seen by the lower-level cultists, as Daemons are something really focused on by the Imperial Cult as HERESEH!!! Also, Slaanesh is all about excess, I don't see "casual" being anywhere outside of the first day or two. Once the people have their first taste of that emotion that's the easiest to be addicted to (pleasure), they would become addicted incredibly swiftly due to the cult's inevitable skill in mixing fantastic (as in, exists only in fantasies) chemical cocktails and giving awesome massages (among other things).

The big thing with Slaanesh is excess, however, so this is just how I envision a civilian cult starting up. As for EC and other Slaanesh Marines, their basically just Dark Eldar on steroids, IMHO, with most of the emphasis being heightened experiences, be that killing, screwing, torturing, or just plain doing the bench press for twenty hours straight, training as hard as you possibly can for weeks on end, so long as it's excessive. Every SM Chapter out there is, in some way, a Slaanesh Cult. They focus their entire beings upon hate, and training, and serving the Emperor, and, inevitably, Slaanesh gains power from it. Most Chapters would be contributors to Slaanesh's power, but ESPECIALLY Chapters like the Black Templars, who focus every minute bit of them into what they do.