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While building a legion army, I've found myself experiencing long periods of analysis paralysis figuring out if this or that wargear option is worth the points cost. Is artificier armor worth spending 10 points for a 1 wound model? My Assault Seargeant has a Power Fist; is it too many points to also buy him a fancy pistol? That sort of thing. A friend pointed out to me that I am worrying too much about economy of points, and I'll have more fun building the army if I to some degree ignore the points cost on wargear options, and just slap on what I want the squad to have, points be damned, and figure up the tally after the fact.

I know there's a happy medium somewhere in there, but what do you think? Is it better to spend a good bit of energy analyzing points efficiency, or to just build your models in terms of what you want them to do/how you want them to look, and then just accept the cost of what you've come up with?

Both. In your situation I would go ahead and give the sergeant a power fist, I like to give all my character of that level something special to visually set them apart aside from the standard kit. However, from a points perspective, most pistols are overpriced. What I like to do is model special looking basic wargear, that i what's really fun for me.

I build what I like. I've got a Space Marine Devastator sergeant with a power fist, Imperial Guard sergeants with plasma pistols, etc. When I'm playing, I just field units as-is.

Definitely a bit of both. It depends on the purpose of each particular unit. If one of them is going to be your main assault force then yes you should really equip them with some decent upgrades. If they are just a throwaway cheap unit that won't last long then it's probably not worth it. I guess it is a case of looking at what you want each unit to do, e.g. an assault squad sergeant is going to need a powerfist or power weapon a lot more than a devastator sergeant who is going to be sat back directing fire from distance.

For me personally, I like to opimise my tactical marines for shooting - combi weapon on sergeant, special and heavy weapon and for my assault units I go the full hog with power weapons and upgrades. I cannot bring myself to ever field a bare bones, no upgrades unit. From experience, those little extra 10 or 15 points can make a difference and I always want to give my units the best chance they possibly can of succeeding in whatever task I give them.

As a necron player, and a big fan of the Decurion, I built my lists for the models/formations I want to bring. I bring the essentials I want most, then fill in with fun things here and there.

 j31c3n wrote:
In your situation I would go ahead and give the sergeant a power fist, I like to give all my character of that level something special to visually set them apart aside from the standard kit. However, from a points perspective, most pistols are overpriced.

In that example, the Searge of my Legion Assault Squad is currently sitting at home in the grey with a Power Fist (for attacks that can can hurt high AV), a Plasma Pistol (to have a maxed-out 5 plasma pistols in the unit), and Artificier Armor (because I like bling). This particular dude is what propelled the conversation with my friend and me making this post, because after I built him, I realized I got a 1 wound dude running around with 40 points of wargear...not efficient in the least, but I do like the way the guy looks, and with the possible exception of the AA, he's got the gear to do the things I want him to do.

 jasper76 wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:
In your situation I would go ahead and give the sergeant a power fist, I like to give all my character of that level something special to visually set them apart aside from the standard kit. However, from a points perspective, most pistols are overpriced.

In that example, the Searge of my Legion Assault Squad is currently sitting at home in the grey with a Power Fist (for attacks that can can hurt high AV), a Plasma Pistol (to have a maxed-out 5 plasma pistols in the unit), and Artificier Armor (because I like bling). This particular dude is what propelled the conversation with my friend and me making this post, because after I built him, I realized I got a 1 wound dude running around with 40 points of wargear...not efficient in the least, but I do like the way the guy looks, and with the possible exception of the AA, he's got the gear to do the things I want him to do.

You could class the marines in front of him as extra wounds ;-)

 Slaphead wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:
In your situation I would go ahead and give the sergeant a power fist, I like to give all my character of that level something special to visually set them apart aside from the standard kit. However, from a points perspective, most pistols are overpriced.

In that example, the Searge of my Legion Assault Squad is currently sitting at home in the grey with a Power Fist (for attacks that can can hurt high AV), a Plasma Pistol (to have a maxed-out 5 plasma pistols in the unit), and Artificier Armor (because I like bling). This particular dude is what propelled the conversation with my friend and me making this post, because after I built him, I realized I got a 1 wound dude running around with 40 points of wargear...not efficient in the least, but I do like the way the guy looks, and with the possible exception of the AA, he's got the gear to do the things I want him to do.

You could class the marines in front of him as extra wounds ;-)

Yeah, I guess I never thought of it that way. There are potentially 19 dudes there!

Also, "Look out, sir!"

When I glue my mini, I have the codex next to me just to make sure what I glue is what I want to squad to do. I am a wysiwyg guy I guess.

I build just what I like visually, though for special weapons in squads or heavy weapons I do try to wysiwyg, for officers or leaders though I just make them very distinctive. Magnetization might be a route to look into if you're big on wysiwyg.

For example. With my guardsmen I have specific models set to the side with melta, plasma, or flamers for when I want to put them in a squad. Its practical because i have a metric feth ton of guardsmen. On my HWT I just magnetize the base model and switch out weapons as needed, same on my leman russes or other tanks.

while more work than just gluing, marines have big joints so it wouldn't be that hard to drill and insert the magnets!

I build for efficiency. I try to add stuff I like, but I easily adapt my tastes for what I can take advantage of (of course, inside what is friendly enough to play with others)
I magnetize what I can to change upgrades as I see fit

I’m a bit of both. The gamer in me is very singly on the points. The fluff/model side likes to see cool stuff. There is also the WYSWYG part, that field’s what’s there.

I don’t think a thunder hammer is worth 5 points more then a fist, just for concussive. It is worth 5 points to look cooler.

My old 3rd ed captain is using a stormbolter and a power sword. Pretty crappy options these days. I still field him for nostalgia value. Not every game, or even often. But sometimes just to keep the dust off.

I build what I like. I've got a Space Marine Devastator sergeant with a power fist, Imperial Guard sergeants with plasma pistols, etc. When I'm playing, I just field units as-is.

Yup same here, rule of cool takes precedence for me mostly. Plus you cant do too much with old metal models or monosculpts.

For my Crimson Fists, I've started to do both. Initially, I gave every Sergeant I had a power fist for fluff reasons and because I liked the look (and because when I started, hidden power fists were all the rage) but now I've started assembling some with just a bolter or combi-weapon. Sometimes I'll have a list that's over or under by 25 or 30 points, so I can take out or swap in a Sergeant with fist in those cases. I find it's just more versatile to have both.

 Lord Corellia wrote:
For my Crimson Fists, I've started to do both. Initially, I gave every Sergeant I had a power fist for fluff reasons and because I liked the look (and because when I started, hidden power fists were all the rage) but now I've started assembling some with just a bolter or combi-weapon. Sometimes I'll have a list that's over or under by 25 or 30 points, so I can take out or swap in a Sergeant with fist in those cases. I find it's just more versatile to have both.

I've done this in a couple cases. For Legion Tac Squads, I have a couple PF/AA expensive Seargants, and a couple cheaper Seargant Options in case I can't spare the points.

Yup. It helps if you have extra models. I never used the Sergeant torsos, so I clipped them off the sprues and used legs donated from refurbished and stripped Marines. Worked out well enough.

Two squads per army I splurge with no matter how ineffective they are. And usually an HQ choice as well. My Chaos Chosen with Power Swords and Axes, and they are also Honor Guard in Loyalist Astral Claws lists. Both lists have Terminators, and the Chaos ones have FNP and +1 Initiative. Expensive unit. My walking Hive Tyrant ends up being more points than a Flyrant when she has her guards, and a Screamer Killer type of Carnifex sucks down more points than a brood of Dakkafex. But the rest of all those lists is purely efficient. No Sergeant weapons in most cases, no sub-par units apart from those mentioned, no extra wargear unless it helps the unit's role.

Models, models, models. Always models. They're the whole reason we're here, right? I mean sure, there's people who enjoy all facets of the hobby to various degrees, be it the social time gaming with buddies, the fluff/lore, etc. But what drew us all here in the very first place? Surely, it can only be the models themeselves, right?

With tactical squads I like keeping the seargent as similar as possible - keeps things consistent.

I go for eigther no wargear at all or 'sarge with a combi-flamer (for the first time they get assaulted), melta bombs (for a careless opponent thinking the bolter marines are harmless to his tank) and artificer armour to keep him alive and his wargear present. 25points well spent i think, especially if the squad is going bigger than ten men.

I take the units I want largely based on models but the size, composition, and upgrade choices are based on efficiency.

Here are two sergeants I'm in the process of modelling. They both carry only a single item of wargear above the standard kit (bolter, bolt pistol). But look how coool they are:



I'm using Volkite calivers as boltguns (temporary solution) and the little melta bits on their wrist are the single-shot melta bit of a combi weapon.

I don't magnetize (well some things, but it's rare), I just build how I want things to look. I only play with friends and we don't mind changing up our wargear for testing/fun at all. I've had buddies use erasers to proxy as models, for example.

The last thing I'm going to do is let another player or rules system dictate what my models look like or what I'll enjoy building/painting.

I analyze it to hell and back, and when possible (and necessary) magnetize the crap out of my figs.

I usually assemble them based on how I want them to look even if it's sticks me with wargear that's "sub optimal" because if I want the different wargear I usually just buy more models to assemble them that way. Granted it's an expensive approach, but I've always been more of a collector than a player so it's usually no big deal.

I figure out what I want play, then build what I plan to play. Due to how newer codexes change what is useful from edition to edition, I've gotten into the habit of magnetizing weapon options, such as the many Nemesis Force Weapon options my Grey Knights can carry. Halberds use to be awesome, now Falchions are. Hammers are always in vogue, but Swords use be more useful than just free. Also, Staves.

Then we have the special weapons, which all have their uses yet the usability changes between editions. Thankfully, it's the same weapon arm(s) for mounting the different options, so magnets. And I even magnetize the backpacks, because Interceptors.

SJ

Both I guess. I tend to build armies around themes I like, and take a few chunks of whatever. I usually do this for about half my points, them use the other half to fill in the gaps and optimize.

I also magnet all the things. In the process of building 6 land speeders, every option is getting magnets.

I want to just bring the models I like but with Orks its not really a viable option unless I want to see half my army shot off the table before turn 3 and the other half lose in CC, run off the table, or get murdered by mob rule. So I bring the models that I like the most that can fill the needs of my army without being too big of a handicap. Flash Gitz are nearly always in my Battlewagon lists and very few people would claim them to be a top tier unit. I wish I could field my Stormboyz or Kanz more but they always die horribly in every game and rarely make their points.

For my Tau I typically run 4 units of Fire Warriors, 2 units of Pathfinders, a unit of Broadsides, 2 Hammerheads, 3 units of Crisis Suits, and an Ethereal. No Riptides, no Broadside spam, no minimal troops, rarely a buffmander. I personally hate how Tau armies end up when min/maxed or play the no brainpower style of Riptide spam (its not OP, just lazy).

unless you're playing in tournaments, I think most people will not care about strict WYSIWYG. I built my aspiring champions with various war gear just because it looked cool. In my games, I usually run them without any upgrades and inform my opponent that they can ignore the various power weapons and plasma pistols.

 Fafnir13 wrote:
unless you're playing in tournaments, I think most people will not care about strict WYSIWYG..

My experience has been more that most people will tolerate non-WYSIWYG models, particularly if it's just one or two when you're trying things out... but that most people find it a little irritating unless they're someone who does that themselves.


Tournament or not, it's much easier to play the game if you can just see what the models are carrying, rather than having to try to remember it or constantly be asking your opponent.

little bit of both. sometimes if something looks really awesome I'll do it anyway, like a captain with the twin sword set up you can get from the ultramarines upgrade pack. it's really just a sword/pistol combo. but he just looks so much cooler with the twin swords