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Hi my friends.

How are you all?

I've been testing VC. What about you?

Any units you are giving up on using?

I've reached the decisions that, if I intend to buy a box of Vargheist/Crypt Horrors, is best to assemble the Crypt Horrors. They are better in combat.

I prefer BK in combat, vs Hexwraiths in combat also, even though you have one less attack. The returning D3 slain models due the Standard is really great.

Don't like either Mortis Engine and Coven Throne but if you want to use one I would say to use the Mortis Engine.

Mannfred is the best of the Mortarchs to use, IMO.

In terms of Morghasts, I'm still divided between both Harbingers and Archai. Any opinion on those?

Nagash is to powerfull in battle right now...

Zombie Dragon is best then Terrorgheist but I used one of each in one game... They are still great (both)

Talk only about what you already tested, please and the feedbacks on that

It's really hard to measure a unit's strength without a balance mechanism in place. Technically, you could say sth. about a unit's strength, but since you can spam as many units as you want, quantity is far more important than quality.

I've tried WoC and my friend used Khorne demons. Didn't feel too bad with either army. Although I think he clenched up a bit when my Knights arrived behind his army to charge right away.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I've tried WoC and my friend used Khorne demons. Didn't feel too bad with either army. Although I think he clenched up a bit when my Knights arrived behind his army to charge right away.

Why did your knights arrived behind his army to charge right away?

Cause of the rule of chaos that let you set up a unit when the General is going to march?

People have used that rule to put any unit where they wanted... It clearly says: "Set up" and you can only "set up" a unit on your side of the battlefield like it's written on the 4 sheet rules (second page)

No. He gets to possibly bring in a unit of knights during the game turns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Read the Chaos Lord Warscroll. It is the Unending Legion command ability.

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:
No. He gets to possibly bring in a unit of knights during the game turns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Read the Chaos Lord Warscroll. It is the Unending Legion command ability.

I know... And in that rule, the words "set up" appear... And in the 4 sheets of the general rules, we have, on the second page, saying that setting up an unit can only be done on your part of the field...

Yes, except they come on to the battle field after the set up phase. That step happens before the game begins. The wordingon Unending Legion is tthat it says go set them up along one edge of the battlefield within 5". It does not say what edge it has to be, and since they come on after the set up step, it could be taken that because of the wording, it is any edge. It is another vagarity in the rules which will need to be clarified.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do see your point though, but I guess that is what we get for having just four pages of rules to work with currently.

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:
Yes, except they come on to the battle field after the set up phase. That step happens before the game begins. The wordingon Unending Legion is tthat it says go set them up along one edge of the battlefield within 5". It does not say what edge it has to be, and since they come on after the set up step, it could be taken that because of the wording, it is any edge. It is another vagarity in the rules which will need to be clarified.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do see your point though, but I guess that is what we get for having just four pages of rules to work with currently.

I would assume its on your armies side of the table and not the enemies, remember the most important rule "COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR OPPONENT" if that is hard, roll a dice and let the fates decide.

Currently I have gotten to play/play against and here are just some quick thoughts:

Ogres: Ironguts, Leadbelchers, Gorgers, Thundertusks and the Giant are all phenomenal. The Giant in particular got a huge boost in effectiveness in AoS.

Warriors of Chaos: Their heroes are painful, particularly the Lord of Khorne from the new starter set. His axe will wreck monsters! Also the rune shields help their armoured units out quite a bit.

Vampire Counts: Zombies got much better surprisingly, I spent 4 rounds killing them and made no significant progress. They can get resummoned so fast.

Tomb Kings: Beware the projectiles! Archers with Khalida and the catapaults with a necrotech will do tons of damage before you even get close. Really clutch to bring something that flies or come on another board edge.

I don't know of any units that I would consider giving up on using as nearly every unit will be effective against something. I like to have as many options as possible when we deploy forces and it has helped immensely. AoS is in some respects a battle of collections, so while I will only use a fraction of my Tomb Kings in any given game for example, the wealth of options that I have at my disposal has given me great tactical flexibility to respond to what my opponent deploys.

Just my two cents. I have been loving it so far!

 StevO wrote:
Currently I have gotten to play/play against and here are just some quick thoughts:

Ogres: Ironguts, Leadbelchers, Gorgers, Thundertusks and the Giant are all phenomenal. The Giant in particular got a huge boost in effectiveness in AoS.

Warriors of Chaos: Their heroes are painful, particularly the Lord of Khorne from the new starter set. His axe will wreck monsters! Also the rune shields help their armoured units out quite a bit.

Vampire Counts: Zombies got much better surprisingly, I spent 4 rounds killing them and made no significant progress. They can get resummoned so fast.

Tomb Kings: Beware the projectiles! Archers with Khalida and the catapaults with a necrotech will do tons of damage before you even get close. Really clutch to bring something that flies or come on another board edge.

I don't know of any units that I would consider giving up on using as nearly every unit will be effective against something. I like to have as many options as possible when we deploy forces and it has helped immensely. AoS is in some respects a battle of collections, so while I will only use a fraction of my Tomb Kings in any given game for example, the wealth of options that I have at my disposal has given me great tactical flexibility to respond to what my opponent deploys.

Just my two cents. I have been loving it so far!

what I love the most is that I am now allowed to take units from all other forces which is a great way to balance what you lack, I am still waiting for the new models and armies to come out before deciding on an army but I am already buying the things I like, Like River Trolls, nothing stops Tomb kings from using them as slaves ;D... But hopefully the undead will be getting more things as they are the ones I am likely to focus on, specifically the skeletons, love skeletons.

Played 6 or so games now with my dwarfs using
anvil
12 iron brakers
bugman
16 rangers
cannon
my opponants were a
mixed chaos force of warriors lord gors letters and warshrine
empire. demigriffs, knights, swordsmen x2 units and valten
lizards(fought twice). Temple gaurd, saurus, camo skinks,terradons old blood
a mixed skaven force r.ogers clans weapon teams
and high elves prince on griffen, sea gaurd, sword masters,ellion reavers and a mage.
in all the battles i won dwarfs are really resilliant with there shields giving reroll saves and a buff from the anvil the ironbreakers were hard to kill. The rangers with buggy can come on any where more than9" from an enemy then lay down a load of bolts and set up a shield wall(reroll saves in combat as long as they dont run/charge) to take the counter attack, the cannon is excellent for killing hard units it did a job on the demigriffs and r.ogers. over all the synagy (spl) in the scrolls means theres lots of different ways to run units to get the best out of them. The rangers survived against charging knights(8) and killed them in combat which i wasnt expecting the ironbreakers were taken down after mauling 12 gors and 12 bletters(there killing blow is nasty). Where as the rangers were badly mauled by swords men in combat.
In conclusion id say tough units are weak(er) against hoards and better at elites where as elites will maul the hoards. The tricky part is getting the right match up and numbers do count in attacks/wounds the more the better.
the biggest change for me as dwarfs is init not playing a part anymore my old stunties can finally do some killing without having to take a load of them just to absorb the opponants attacks first. So im happy trying out slayers this weekend as there not an instant loss now with there improved mortal strike, unless getting shot which they actually have a save against now(not a good one but even so).
Right rambled enough for now.

bitethythumb wrote:

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:
Yes, except they come on to the battle field after the set up phase. That step happens before the game begins. The wordingon Unending Legion is tthat it says go set them up along one edge of the battlefield within 5". It does not say what edge it has to be, and since they come on after the set up step, it could be taken that because of the wording, it is any edge. It is another vagarity in the rules which will need to be clarified.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do see your point though, but I guess that is what we get for having just four pages of rules to work with currently.

I would assume its on your armies side of the table and not the enemies, remember the most important rule "COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR OPPONENT" if that is hard, roll a dice and let the fates decide.

I complety understand, and I would assume the same as well. I keep hearing from the local guys about Chaos Knights showing up in their backsides and I asked them about it. That is the answer they gave me and were given by their opponents. It just seems strange that there isn't any concrete clarification on it in our rules pamphlet. I am hoping that these rules are just the free demo version before a slightly larger manual shows up. Shoot, it could be as short as 20 pages and still cover what needs to be said.

The High Elves I have still haven't seen the table top yet, plus I want to rebase them to round bases because I like the look of White Lions on rounds bases haha.

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:

bitethythumb wrote:

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:
Yes, except they come on to the battle field after the set up phase. That step happens before the game begins. The wordingon Unending Legion is tthat it says go set them up along one edge of the battlefield within 5". It does not say what edge it has to be, and since they come on after the set up step, it could be taken that because of the wording, it is any edge. It is another vagarity in the rules which will need to be clarified.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do see your point though, but I guess that is what we get for having just four pages of rules to work with currently.

I would assume its on your armies side of the table and not the enemies, remember the most important rule "COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR OPPONENT" if that is hard, roll a dice and let the fates decide.

I complety understand, and I would assume the same as well. I keep hearing from the local guys about Chaos Knights showing up in their backsides and I asked them about it. That is the answer they gave me and were given by their opponents. It just seems strange that there isn't any concrete clarification on it in our rules pamphlet. I am hoping that these rules are just the free demo version before a slightly larger manual shows up. Shoot, it could be as short as 20 pages and still cover what needs to be said.

The High Elves I have still haven't seen the table top yet, plus I want to rebase them to round bases because I like the look of White Lions on rounds bases haha.

like I said, most important rule, talk to your opponent and see how it goes, I mean if the scenario demands it, why not let them appear behind you and yet in the long run there will be more rules as with any new game, just compare rogue trader to 40k now... at this moment I am thinking of having a bridge scenario, have not fully decided what it would be but thinking about it

bitethythumb wrote:

 ImperialFists2ndCompany wrote:
Yes, except they come on to the battle field after the set up phase. That step happens before the game begins. The wordingon Unending Legion is tthat it says go set them up along one edge of the battlefield within 5". It does not say what edge it has to be, and since they come on after the set up step, it could be taken that because of the wording, it is any edge. It is another vagarity in the rules which will need to be clarified.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do see your point though, but I guess that is what we get for having just four pages of rules to work with currently.

I would assume its on your armies side of the table and not the enemies, remember the most important rule "COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR OPPONENT" if that is hard, roll a dice and let the fates decide.

I really don't know how you guys stomach letting something that important be decided on a 4+... seems like madness, but I'm glad some folks are having fun with it

bitethythumb wrote:
what I love the most is that I am now allowed to take units from all other forces which is a great way to balance what you lack, I am still waiting for the new models and armies to come out before deciding on an army but I am already buying the things I like, Like River Trolls, nothing stops Tomb kings from using them as slaves ;D... But hopefully the undead will be getting more things as they are the ones I am likely to focus on, specifically the skeletons, love skeletons.

We had to do this because our group isn't a Fantasy group and our models are too scattered in factions. But we tried to group them together into likely allies (order, chaos, etc), and it was pretty good. This disorganized, "unbound" is nice to give Fantasy model collectors who don't really plan on an army (and therefore don't have cohesive units) be able to play their models.

 Talys wrote:

bitethythumb wrote:
what I love the most is that I am now allowed to take units from all other forces which is a great way to balance what you lack, I am still waiting for the new models and armies to come out before deciding on an army but I am already buying the things I like, Like River Trolls, nothing stops Tomb kings from using them as slaves ;D... But hopefully the undead will be getting more things as they are the ones I am likely to focus on, specifically the skeletons, love skeletons.

We had to do this because our group isn't a Fantasy group and our models are too scattered in factions. But we tried to group them together into likely allies (order, chaos, etc), and it was pretty good. This disorganized, "unbound" is nice to give Fantasy model collectors who don't really plan on an army (and therefore don't have cohesive units) be able to play their models.

well I am just waiting for the new models to come out, its also a bonus to mix and match because you never know what your opponent might bring, my brain is still buzzing with army ideas and themes (new worlds, new themes) and anything goes which I love, just bought a bunch of skeletons...

so I got a hellpit
3 river trolls
10 khermi skellies
necrotect
necromancer/(or lich)... (funnily both can use their powers on the others skellies from each army as both armies skellies are "death rattlers" which is pretty cool, so I can have an army of tomb king skellies led by a vampire counts necromancer, think about that, take hordes of skellie archer, get a few necromancers and they will never die since you can just deduct the wounds from the skellies next to them making yourself more or less immortal and a ranged god) oh and its the old school necromancer with the long hair and skullstaff if you remember it.

I still have not fully decided what will be my main ARMY but the fact that I can more or less fit in anything into anything is just awesome, better than list making since now I am open to all armies and I still have an unfinished starter box so khornies and sigmarinies

This week I should finally be getting to unleash my Stormcast Eternals. I've gotten four sets of them from the starter set and at least one set of every additional set they have released. I will have to let you all know how it goes.

Watched a game of Dark Elves versus Undead Legions. Watched a Morghast go down in one round when the supporting infantry unit failed a charge and it was left on its own. I am finding, regardless of army, that character models are really helpful, but very vulnerable. The fact that they can no longer hide in units really has me being more careful with how I deploy/maneuver them.

I tried a few battle against my friend with different combinations of ogres and dwarfs against his brettonians.
The feeling I got from the battles were that dwarfs felt a bit underpowered, even when my opponent lowered his his number of units.
On the other hand though Ogres felt pretty powerful and it seemed I needed fewer ogres than before, maybe because they now have each 4 wounds instead of 3.
It also felt like there were a LOT of rules missing in the game, som aspects didn't really feel fleshed out, but maybe thats the point of AoS.
Anyhow thats just my personal experience

I played a game dwarfs vs chaos.

Lists:

15 dwarf warriors - hand weapon + shield, full command.
15 thunders - shield, full command.
15 hammers - full command.
1 dwarf cannon - 3 crew
1 engineer
1 lord with hand weapon + shield
1 lord with great weapon
1 named character (grimm)

Vs

All Khorne models from starter set.
10 khorne flesh hounds.

Dwarfs won pretty much land slide.
Reroll dwarf saves is really good so is the lords grudge and long range rending shooting buffed by grimm was invaluable.
cannon is hit n miss.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Donkeyshot wrote:

It also felt like there were a LOT of rules missing in the game, som aspects didn't really feel fleshed out, but maybe thats the point of AoS.
Anyhow thats just my personal experience

I understand this is no excuse for poor rules but so far any raised issue with rules we have sorted with the, is it in the spirit of the game or is it in the spirit winning.
Obviously there will be gray areas but how seriously they effect play remains to be seen.

Ive had countless rules issues playing games with bibles for rules im not sure simiplisity for the sake of it was the right way to go but at least its easy to remember all the rules and not worry that your miss remembering rules as yourve played several editions of the same game and they start to blur together

I did an Empire vs. Lizardmen battle where I played as the Empire. I wish I could really tell you how the armies were, but my rolling was so atrocious it kind of destroyed any hopes of really getting a feel for it. The only thing aspect that really shown through was that the Saurus Cavalry have an almost unfair amount of attacks. Not having some rules and having some of the rules changed drastically, especially in the shooting phase, made for a very different feel to the game.

Unfortunately like I said, my rolling was so bad it kind of made it hard for both of us to get an informed opinion on everything so we'll be trying again this week. Most likely will be a differently constructed Empire vs. Beastmen.

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
I played a game dwarfs vs chaos.

Lists:

15 dwarf warriors - hand weapon + shield, full command.
15 thunders - shield, full command.
15 hammers - full command.
1 dwarf cannon - 3 crew
1 engineer
1 lord with hand weapon + shield
1 lord with great weapon
1 named character (grimm)

Vs

All Khorne models from starter set.
10 khorne flesh hounds.

Dwarfs won pretty much land slide.
Reroll dwarf saves is really good so is the lords grudge and long range rending shooting buffed by grimm was invaluable.
cannon is hit n miss.


I understand this is no excuse for poor rules but so far any raised issue with rules we have sorted with the, is it in the spirit of the game or is it in the spirit winning.
Obviously there will be gray areas but how seriously they effect play remains to be seen.

Ive had countless rules issues playing games with bibles for rules im not sure simiplisity for the sake of it was the right way to go but at least its easy to remember all the rules and not worry that your miss remembering rules as yourve played several editions of the same game and they start to blur together

Hmm, seems I just didn't have enough dwarfs perhaps. Good to see that they weren't as bad as I thought they were

 NH Gunsmith wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do see your point though, but I guess that is what we get for having just four pages of rules to work with currently.

Is this a dig at only 4 pages? So why is the excuse when there are GW books of over 100 pages and as you can see in You Make Da Call, debates and arguments go on forever. Saying 4 pages is the reason why you are having a debate is moot since debates go on with over 100 pages.

Ive played 3 games with both Sigmar's finest and Skaven

Sigmarines feel well balanced if a bit bland, with more options on up coming troops and a dedicated ranged support I feel the only things the army is missing is a dedicated caster/dispeller, warmachines and a monster or (dracolith)cavalry (PLEASE!)

With skaven i have an extensive army and weirdly feel like a cleaner version of WFB selfs: As i have been fielding them in huge blocks on movement trays, (spears/halberts still fight in 3 ranks, swords in 2)

Racial: Skaven are naturaly fast with a base move of 6" compared to other armies of 5" or dwarfs 4". Banners let you retreat and charge in the same turn very tactical and strong makes the army blindingly fast. musicans add +1" to charges and retreats
has sub par leadership of 4, so expect to hemorage rats all game.

Heroes: Feels like these guys can make or brake your force
Screaming bell, This guy does it all and is basicly a monster and a mage combo, field it in a mob for movement boost then crash into the opposition, dealing massive attacks, and shooting spells everywhere, command ability improves all skaven basic stats, and in the hero phase roll 2d6 for random fun witha chance to summon a vermin lord.
Warlord- decent fighter, hits and runs like a true skaven, and buff skaven with a free attack.
chieften w/ banner- hard to use but if planted corretly makes huge buffs for the team turning all skaven in 13: Into badasses.
Plague Priest: seems interesting but i didnt get much use out of him, synergises with nurgle

CORE:
Slaves are more than a tar pit but not reliable with ranged. Rather bring clan rats.
Clan rats become better for every 10 up to 30 and i field them in 40 man bricks always.
Storm vermin are better clan rats but they are stronger as long as you out number the other unit. I field as 25 rats and stands up to most things, solid all round anvil.

WARMACHINES: in general feel extreamly strong. they can get direct buffs to their attack but on a d6 of 1 they take 1d3 mortal wounds, with 3 wounds a piece i almost always go for it and it paided off every time.
Warpfire thrower 9" auto 1d3 mortal wounds or 1d6 If you pushed the unit. Feels mean every time.
Plague wind mortars 6-22" or push it to get 30" range, does not need LOS, getts stronger for hitting larger units and has a good chance of causing 6 wound if you shoot a unit of 20 models. and has a rend of -2 or 3?
ratling gun 18" range gets a to hit buff at 9" and shoots 2d6 attacks or 4d6 if you pushed the unit. has a good chance of mowing down anything it sees but sometimes wiffs spectacularly.

SPECIAL:
Rat ogres: stronger on the charge and feel like... well ogres, great at fighting almost everything.
Pack master : if your bring any molder unity he can double their bravery for a ogre that means they have a bravery of 10.
Plague wind globadiers- same as mortars 9" no LOS range with 1 shot per guy. (for when you absolutly need to murder a huge horde)

RARE:
Hell pit abomination: plays like most monsters doesnt excel anywhere except having a lot of attacks, good but random movement, heals 1d3 on your hero phase. Also debuffs any caster without the chaos keyword with a -1 in a 12" radius.

TLDR: Skaven feel like a better version of their 8th counter parts and are very strong/ well interally balanced, plays like a an army not so much a skirmisher band.
Sigmarines: need more units for variety but are fun and are jacks of all trades,masters without magic.

So finally got to throw down with my Stormcast Eternals (SE) yesterday. I've been building like mad to get them ready to play. So far I have: 4 starter sets worth, 1 Lord Celestant on foot, one box of liberators which I used to convert all of my redundant primes into normal troops, and a second converted Relictor and a Lord Castellant on the way.

I was playing against a Chaos alliance and it was a fairly large game, his 101 models to my 68. The game was absolutely brutal and here are a handful of things I took away pertaining to SE specifically:

1. The courage buff from the battle scrolls (formations) help enough to make the command ability of the dracoth mounted Celestant Largely unnecessary.
2. The Celestant on foot command ability of +1 to hit is very powerful. Especially on...
3. Retributors are wrecking machines and can massacre darn near everything, especially when they are hitting on 2's
4. The prosecutors teleporting in via the batte scroll are very helpful, having a 18" shooting attach and 3D6 charge can allow them to light up and charge darn near anything they want.
5. Wait to deploy them however: They have a very large footprint and are limited in deployment early on, and wait to see how the battle is shaping up after 2-3 turns.
6. The movement options for the SE are very limited outside of the Prosecutors, with many foot troops having only a 4" movement
7. As such use terrain to form barriers whenever possible, the bonus to saves on Liberators that reroll saves of 1's helps them live considerably longer than they should have.
8. Do not be afraid to launch liberators into monsters and heroes. Their bonus to wound (and possibly to hit from the Celestant on foot) allow them to hit very hard and they are very sturdy in return.
9. Hold the heroes back for a second wave, the command abilities and healing are all crucial to the success of your basic troops.
10. No spellcasters, and more specifically no way to dispell within the army is a huge liability. Look to some warrior priests from Empire or hone in on wizards with your prosecutors.
11. No ranged combat outside of prosecutors was an issue, but with the archers looming on the horizon this is something of a moot point very shortly.

Whew, there we go. This was just some quick thoughts after my first playthrough with them. I will be giving you some more to work with once I get some more games in.

 StevO wrote:
So finally got to throw down with my Stormcast Eternals (SE) yesterday. I've been building like mad to get them ready to play. So far I have: 4 starter sets worth, 1 Lord Celestant on foot, one box of liberators which I used to convert all of my redundant primes into normal troops, and a second converted Relictor and a Lord Castellant on the way.

I was playing against a Chaos alliance and it was a fairly large game, his 101 models to my 68. The game was absolutely brutal and here are a handful of things I took away pertaining to SE specifically:

1. The courage buff from the battle scrolls (formations) help enough to make the command ability of the dracoth mounted Celestant Largely unnecessary.
2. The Celestant on foot command ability of +1 to hit is very powerful. Especially on...
3. Retributors are wrecking machines and can massacre darn near everything, especially when they are hitting on 2's
4. The prosecutors teleporting in via the batte scroll are very helpful, having a 18" shooting attach and 3D6 charge can allow them to light up and charge darn near anything they want.
5. Wait to deploy them however: They have a very large footprint and are limited in deployment early on, and wait to see how the battle is shaping up after 2-3 turns.
6. The movement options for the SE are very limited outside of the Prosecutors, with many foot troops having only a 4" movement
7. As such use terrain to form barriers whenever possible, the bonus to saves on Liberators that reroll saves of 1's helps them live considerably longer than they should have.
8. Do not be afraid to launch liberators into monsters and heroes. Their bonus to wound (and possibly to hit from the Celestant on foot) allow them to hit very hard and they are very sturdy in return.
9. Hold the heroes back for a second wave, the command abilities and healing are all crucial to the success of your basic troops.
10. No spellcasters, and more specifically no way to dispell within the army is a huge liability. Look to some warrior priests from Empire or hone in on wizards with your prosecutors.
11. No ranged combat outside of prosecutors was an issue, but with the archers looming on the horizon this is something of a moot point very shortly.

Whew, there we go. This was just some quick thoughts after my first playthrough with them. I will be giving you some more to work with once I get some more games in.

Wow... I don't like SE minis but your description made me wanting to buy some :p

NunoTaborda wrote:

 StevO wrote:
So finally got to throw down with my Stormcast Eternals (SE) yesterday. I've been building like mad to get them ready to play. So far I have: 4 starter sets worth, 1 Lord Celestant on foot, one box of liberators which I used to convert all of my redundant primes into normal troops, and a second converted Relictor and a Lord Castellant on the way.

I was playing against a Chaos alliance and it was a fairly large game, his 101 models to my 68. The game was absolutely brutal and here are a handful of things I took away pertaining to SE specifically:

1. The courage buff from the battle scrolls (formations) help enough to make the command ability of the dracoth mounted Celestant Largely unnecessary.
2. The Celestant on foot command ability of +1 to hit is very powerful. Especially on...
3. Retributors are wrecking machines and can massacre darn near everything, especially when they are hitting on 2's
4. The prosecutors teleporting in via the batte scroll are very helpful, having a 18" shooting attach and 3D6 charge can allow them to light up and charge darn near anything they want.
5. Wait to deploy them however: They have a very large footprint and are limited in deployment early on, and wait to see how the battle is shaping up after 2-3 turns.
6. The movement options for the SE are very limited outside of the Prosecutors, with many foot troops having only a 4" movement
7. As such use terrain to form barriers whenever possible, the bonus to saves on Liberators that reroll saves of 1's helps them live considerably longer than they should have.
8. Do not be afraid to launch liberators into monsters and heroes. Their bonus to wound (and possibly to hit from the Celestant on foot) allow them to hit very hard and they are very sturdy in return.
9. Hold the heroes back for a second wave, the command abilities and healing are all crucial to the success of your basic troops.
10. No spellcasters, and more specifically no way to dispell within the army is a huge liability. Look to some warrior priests from Empire or hone in on wizards with your prosecutors.
11. No ranged combat outside of prosecutors was an issue, but with the archers looming on the horizon this is something of a moot point very shortly.

Whew, there we go. This was just some quick thoughts after my first playthrough with them. I will be giving you some more to work with once I get some more games in.

Wow... I don't like SE minis but your description made me wanting to buy some :p

Well, if you liked the description you will enjoy playing with them that much more. They certainly aren't flashy in game terms, but the will grind darn near any opponent down in a war of attrition.

So I got to use my Tomb Kings to devastating effect.

I brought Khalida, two catapults, a horde of archers and a necrotect. With Sepurchal Stalkers buried beneath the sands.

I wanted to see how a dedicated ranged combat army could go and it was brutal. I am going to be trying it out again this week against Lizardmen and we will see how it goes.

We played two games with the starter set.
The Sigmarines came on top in both games
At the end of the day, they are more durable than the Khorne army.
The Liberators should definitely be the core of any Sigmarine army.
Use them as first wave. Retributors should be slightly behind to take on the harder targets.
Same goes for Prosecutors wounding monsters or killing wizards are tasks they could solve.

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's really hard to measure a unit's strength without a balance mechanism in place. Technically, you could say sth. about a unit's strength, but since you can spam as many units as you want, quantity is far more important than quality.

This line of argument assumes that people either already have an army entirely of Blood Knights or Zombie Dragons (for example), rather than an individual model or one very small unit? Are players really going to rush out and buy eighty Blood Knights and five Dragons?

This is the main argument I'm hearing about AoS - that people will spam uber-powerful units. Who's going to go out and buy them? They must have a few quid flying round, maybe they can lend it me so I can buy a Peugeot RCZ-R

I've played several games with the following:

-Stormcast Eternals
-High Elves
-Lizardmen
-Khorne based chaos
-Warriors of Chaos
-Chaos Daemons
-Skaven

I have found that Deamons, Sormcast, and Lizardmen seem to synergize the best (tough, resilient,, high damage, etc). However a lot of this is based on units I own.

Skaven and High elves have better troop choices but the heroes I have don't seem as resilient.

We always play 1-2 heroes, 1 monster, and 1-3 squads of whatever.

Soon. I'll be trying Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts. I love how easy it is to get into this game and how you can army build before spending a dime.