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Yeah.. you read it right. Orks vs a flamer heavy army...

his normal list is something like:
vulkan in a drop pod with 9 sternguard, 2 with heavy flamers 3 with combi flamers, 2 with combi melta.

command squad in a drop pod (cant remeber load out)
ironclad in a drop pod

10 man tactical squad in a drop pod x2 (1multi-melta 1 flamer each)
10 man tactical squad in a drop pod (cant remember load out)

vindictor

thunder fire gun

knight
(more or less. some times takes some scout bikers)

and i just seem to crumble and get tabled. wether its by the lone knight. or by all the flamers.

Iv tried a big biker squad with painboy and warboos (we dont Use FW so no whats his face guy0

And erm yeah thats kinda all?

My immediate thoughts go to deffkoptas, warbaggies and tankbustas in trukks, I would recommend gun wagons but you don't use forgeworld so they are a no go, or you could put them in battlewagons. Things that can hurt him but don't have to get close and they can run away when needed.

The blitz brigade would be another option 5 battlewagons with scout backed up by deffkoptas.

Other than that maybe a blitz bomba or some stormboyz that could quickly move.

battlewagons, warbuggies, tankbustas.

or no vehicles, green tide with maximum deployment spread.


I myself run battlewagons, warbuggies and tankbustas, and admittedly i think this list would probably ruin my day. however, if he doesnt get an amazing alpha strike off, those flamers can only possibly wound 6 of the 20 boyz in a wagon., so a maximum of 12 if there are two flamers. And since they are fearless when they are embarked, they will still be able to disembark and charge. The problem will be them getting melta off and then flaming the guys that get out. So you have to bubble wrap the wagons with the biker squad to get a cover save against the melta.

And outflanking buggies with rokkits can do some work against the knight and tankbustas are great against a knight.

Flyers would also be a good choice since he doesnt have much aa.

He runes knights but you cant use Ork FW stuff? Thats just dumb

So you're having problems with Salamanders you say?

I'm going to assume you're tailoring a list for this guy assuming he's a friend. Otherwise why does he have all those flamers?

Your first problem is your vehicles exploding: "Meltas on my rear armor destroy my best battlewagons, help me." - So to help keep your vehicles safe you have a couple options. a)Kustom force fields. You can take them on a Morkanaut, or a big mek, you can walk them, put them inside, or on a bike. They come in 2 forms 5+, and 4+. Both are okay options. 33%-50% chance to save against meltas isn't awful.
b) don't give them your ass. So you know how people say we're a horde army? Do you have a severe lack of models on the table? Well there is 2 ways to fix that. Either run more models or use Denied Flank to bunch up the few you have. He isn't dropping his TFC and he can't do it to his vindicator, so place your models on the opposite corner from them. Won't help much from those 2, may even make things worse if he places them in the middle, but your goal is to make the drop pod meltas have to fire at front arc. If you're taking up the area behind them they can't land there. Also having models around your bw's gives you a 5+ cover, and if they are forced 6" away they don't get their melta rule. Which is really important to keeping you alive.

Now that your vehicles are making it to their site of the field, what do we want in them? Well you said he has a tank, 3+ armor, a knight and only a few AP 2 weapons? That screams Tankbustas and meganobs with killsaws. I suggest getting mad doc in one group for rampage and fearless. MA warboss with a second MANs mob is great too. A full unit of 15 Tankbustas should charge and kill a knight before disappearing in the kaboom. But you'll need more than one unit if you want to be sure you'll get to him. To fit more than elites into your detachment the Waaagghh Ghazkull supplement detachment with 6 elite slots.

Heavy flamers will murder your guys in vehicles, unless they have 2+ armor, I suggest you surround those vehicles to keep the flamers as far away as possible. Then immediately assault the flamers. I know it's going to hurt, but you need to do it.

"Armor 3+ is so hard to kill! What do I do?" You use weapons that cut their armor. Aka rokkits, Kustom mega kannons/blastas/pistols, snazzgunz, big bombs, powerklaws, killsaws, shokk attack gun, and technically (though I'd never use it) the bubblechukka. Personally I love Flashgitz in a BW, and Shokk Attack Gunz on bikes. I enjoy it so much.

Well, I hope this helps.

-Troile

If you have a LOT of grot models, you could bubblewrap everything deep. Spread them out and the flamers will only get 20 points or so on turn 1.

What do you have right now.

I've found out that flamers aren't all that frightening to footslogging boyz. They're much more threatening to boyz in vehicles due to no escape.

When you're footslogging, you spread out and force him to put flamers in front of the squad to cover more bodies - and even so, he's gona get 3-4 at best. Than you kill flamers with return fire and charge in.

Just put loads of bodies on the table well spread.

If you deny the pods your whole deployment area and force them on your front you get many many advantages:

1) Meltas firing out of melta range on your trucks with a 5+ cover.
2) Flamers inflicting pitiful damage if your squads are well spread
3) No guys in your backlines, so you can go straight forward while picking marines on the way.

You will suffer some losses from the TFC and the Vindicator, but they don't account for much in this scenario.

The real problem is the knight.

Void Shield Generator, or even better; Void Shield Relay Network.

Unless he brings down your 3-9 av12 "hull points", his flamers are useless. So much for his alpha strike.

GrafWattenburg wrote:
Void Shield Generator, or even better; Void Shield Relay Network.

Unless he brings down your 3-9 av12 "hull points", his flamers are useless. So much for his alpha strike.

Well flamers still hurt passengers of open-topped vehicles. So his flamers are still very potent.

But seriously, your most important turn is going to be deployment.

tedurur wrote:
He runes knights but you cant use Ork FW stuff? Thats just dumb

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment.

A green tide can do it. You put the painboy in there with two warbosses and 10 nobz with pks and you can absorb the flamers and multicharge him after his alpha. Depending on how many flamers there are you may only want to charge half the units. Give one of the bosses the big bosspole and everyone is fearless so he has to kill everyone. Lootas can glance the knight as well or you could use tankbustas for that. Also if you take a unit of kommandos with snikrot you should be able to get that thunderfire easily without having to go all the way across the table.

Speaking only from the perspective of a Salamander Pod player: there is no hope.

Kidding. But seriously, if all he brings is meltas and Flamers, you've got a hard fight in your hands. The only times I've lost to orks has been when the other player either cheated or brought more armor than I could contend with. Vehicles, walkers, everything you can put together.

 koooaei wrote:
What do you have right now.

I've found out that flamers aren't all that frightening to footslogging boyz. They're much more threatening to boyz in vehicles due to no escape.

When you're footslogging, you spread out and force him to put flamers in front of the squad to cover more bodies - and even so, he's gona get 3-4 at best. Than you kill flamers with return fire and charge in.

^^^What he said. If he's close enough to use flamers, he's close enough get charged.

Maybe consider asking him to change his list? I assume you guys are friends and can work something out.

As mentioned above get a handle on bubble wrap for starters. 35 pts of grots will soak those flamers and remember weapons only kill models IN RANGE (not longest weapon in the unit like 6th). 1" base + 2" gap = not many at 3 pts a pop to boot.

You should also consider a couple lone koptas as they generally useful for many things and here they can push back his landing zone (LZ).

By the same token a unit of infiltrating kommandos will give you a similar cushion and together they can be positioned with just enough space to prevent a pod from fitting (add almost +1" all around). If you do give up real estate make it a board edge so he can mishap since pods CAN mishap off edges, or at the least be isolated.

And then as above bubble wrap your important stuff and reserve what you can't protect. Some KMK batteries in the back would be welcome as would a SAG or two. Make him pay for putting marines out of cover.

And lastly it goes without saying but counter assault. I really don't know many people who put their army in range of a proper ork mob more than once..