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Starting this thread to discuss general list build tactics that could be applied technically to any army. Not really looking for instant win unbeatable kind of tactics, I'll note some ideas below and see if anyone has comments or more suggestions.

The idea is to go with the current methods of winning a game of AOS - either by killing more % of models than your opponent, or forcing them to accept a sudden death objective of your choice and having the means to achieve that objective.
We can put them pretty much into 2 categories of lists - kill % tactic builds, and instant death tactic builds (each instant death type could have its own ideas)

Kill % tactic builds:

-have tough + high armor units or monsters in the front backed by high damage war machine and ranged attackers in the back. This is your typical MMO setup using a tank, and then have healers/ buffers and glass cannon high damage outputters behind them. While your opponent struggles to kill the tough stuff, they can't get to the weak high damage units behind them.

Instant death objective builds (after placing 30% less models than opponent)

-Assassination - use flyers and ranged warmachines to take down the target as fast as possible before getting swarmed

-Seize ground - choose a single fast flyer on your side to protect and keep alive until the last turn (or 2) and send that model as fast as possible towards the objective
-Also, choose an objective in their territory that is as close to your territory as possible

-Endure - not a good choice, this seems stacked against you since your the one with fewer models (unless someone can think of tactics for this) - plus you already have an objective to kill more % of models than them, this seems even harder than that

-Blunt - probably not a good choice either since with Assassination they are limited in their choice, but with this they could choose any unit in their whole army...

Thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually scratch what I wrote about endure, I read it wrong since it is actually YOU who auto wins if you have even 1 model left alive, which pretty much wipes out your opponents ability to achieve victory if they have a slight kill % more than you.

This objective could go well with using fast flying/tough units to try and evade your opponent as long as possible, and using any kind of tar pit unit to slow him down.
Deploying at the back of the board could help too.

Great idea for a thread, and the opening post hit something so interesting to me, I'll praise it after my current views on AoS list components.


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IMHO, at the moment (subject to change, and I'm not sure), I think a take-all-comers army will involve the following, due to the AoS rules:


1. The Blob - a single yet massive unit with lots of models, there to benefit from the 1 General's 1 buffing Command each turn. The type of unit depends on the army, but IMHO it'll be the toughest multi-attack to be the frontline, to "tank", etc. Unless you vastly outnumber your opponent, you're better off with 1 big Blob just so it can receive your General's single buffing Command.


2. The Heroes - Take many as there's no limitations now and they can't hide in units anymore. Instead of taking fewer, you want MOAR. Even if you house-rule to balance armies via Wounds not model count, in most cases having multiple Heroes seems to be a better payoff (from our experience). Also, 1 General to buff The Blob mentioned above.


3. Ranged/Anti-Ranged - high damage ranged artillery can ruin an army. So people will either taking artillery or, if their army isn't particularly good at that, anti-artillery like fast-moving cavalry/fliers/infiltrators to counter it. Perhaps it'll end up being a little bit of both.


There seems to be some optimal mix/ratio if you organise an army into this framework, like X Blob models to Y Hero models to Z Ranged/Anti-Ranged units, or something, but I'm NOT certain, it just looks like that from games so far. People are still looking for the right strategies, so we got to give it time to settle, and we're not sure what new units will bring. This is just based on the free warscrolls so far.


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My favourite part of the OP is that Sudden Death was used as the framework for list-building. When I was playing 40k's official Kill Team rules, we started thinking in terms of army list optimisation, but quickly remembered victory was based on Mission Objectives (as always), then we started building lists around Mission Objectives based on the different missions.


Sudden Death in AoS isn't just a balance mechanic...it's also the Mission Objectives now (in addition to scenarios, of course). With new players trying to get into this, I believe Sudden Death will be a large part of the meta, it is this rule you're playing against rather than just your opponent's army. Building lists around Sudden Death IS probably the winning strategy, albeit a little bit gamey maybe.


That's really interesting. I'm using my troika of Blob-Heroes-Ranged framework while looking at what I can do to face all those Sudden Death conditions, but that post added a new dimension to my thinking and I wanted to say thanks.

This is an attempt at assassination build I've been looking at 100 wound
Treeman
Treeman
Treeman
Dryad x5
Dryad x5

Durthu
Treeman ancient
Treeman ancient

18 points left with guard of the deep wood formation. Possible turn 1 kill potential With good roll also does it only count for placement of models on the field or does it count reserves

 Kommissar Waaaghrick wrote:


That's really interesting. I'm using my troika of Blob-Heroes-Ranged framework while looking at what I can do to face all those Sudden Death conditions, but that post added a new dimension to my thinking and I wanted to say thanks.

Thanks for the interest,

I like your idea of the blob, especially since one of my armies is night goblins.

Interesting thing is as a horde army, I will need to build my list counter to any of the sudden death objectives.

I think mystic shield will be an important part of keeping the blob (and/or assassination target) alive.

Also having a hero/wizard/monster with a lot of wounds is important to have to pick as the assassination target.

I'm also thinking picking the sergeant of the biggest blob as the general would be a good move to protect him and make sure inspiring presence is always with the blob.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

78zrider wrote:
This is an attempt at assassination build I've been looking at 100 wound
Treeman
Treeman
Treeman
Dryad x5
Dryad x5

Durthu
Treeman ancient
Treeman ancient

18 points left with guard of the deep wood formation. Possible turn 1 kill potential With good roll also does it only count for placement of models on the field or does it count reserves

A counter to your list could be to place a large unit on the woods to prevent you from teleporting through it - you might want to invest in something to 'take control' of the woods in the opponents end to ensure you can use it.