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Hey all,

So I know it's frowned upon to use other codexes for armies if they already have one, let alone their own supplement. But I was thinking that the space marine codex kinda suits Kranon more. They are renegades, who don't seek the power of the gods. And, as they are so recent, they'd have all the toys the imperium has. And Kranon is meant to be a chapter master, but is down graded to a Lord in the Chaos Dex. I reckon they'd use the Black Templar chapter tactics.

I dunno, any thoughts? Do you guys think the marine Dex suits him better? Or would I be spat on at tournaments for using it? Haha

Cheers

That's going to depend entirely on your tournament organizer and local community. Some groups actively embrace Counts-As models and lists, others a vehemently opposed to them. The only unique issue that you may run into is the fact that you're playing an army that already has rules in the game as a different army, which may cause your opponent's a headache if they lapse and start planning their tactics around what they see, instead of what you're actually fielding.

For what it's worth, I'd have no problem with it.

Thanks SkaerKrow. Yeah that all makes sense. I'd try to make everything as legit as possible. Hellbrute could be a Dreadnaught, Cultists could be guardsmen attached, etc.

Templar or Blood Angels could fit. CS are a drop and assault heavy chapter.

I myself have been planning a Night Lords as Raven Guard list.

Well, the Daemonheart is what he's supposed to have, so Iron Hands CT can help represent that easily. The Daemon Sword he uses can use the stats of either the Teeth Of Terra or the Burning Blade.

Oh nice, Night Lords as Raven Guard is a cool idea. Would work pretty perfectly. Yeah Bangels would work amazingly but they can't make chapter masters :C so I'd have to use one of the existing special characters, like Dante, as Kranon. Which I guess would work actually haha


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, Iron Hands seems pretty good for it too. I was also thinking The Burning Blade too. Cos that virtually has the same stats as his actual one half levelled, just without the instant death, but I could live with that, as it would probably never get to that level anyway haha

Isn't there an entire supplement meant to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter?

edit: I see you refer to that in the first post. Wouldn't using the rules to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter be the best way to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter?

Rihgu wrote:
Isn't there an entire supplement meant to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter?

edit: I see you refer to that in the first post. Wouldn't using the rules to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter be the best way to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter?

Sure, as the Crimson Slaughter. But why can't someone use the Crimson Sabers? I use my Red Corsairs as Astral Claws all the time, and the actual models are painted in all sorts of colors. It works and I haven't had any complaints about my four Astral Claws, three Corsairs and a Space Wolf coming out of a Corsair Rhino, or my more extreme example of a Black Legionary, Salamander, Astral Claw, Corsair, Son of Orar and Noise Marine coming out of a Land Raider as my Honor Guard or Chosen, depending on the codex. Usually, it doesn't make a bit of difference. It is nice though to have a printed list for your opponent, that way they can see what you are bringing.

I'm all for a warband of Night Lords that stayed loyal using current SM rules and equipment as they intercept shipments etc, and because they're not actually renegades and save humanity they fall through the cracks as a low priority as a non-supernatural (beyond Space Marine genetics) Legion of the Damned corollary.

At that point you're sort of creating your own chapter and there isn't a book/suplement that really covers it, and you are creating your own fluff. But (post fall) Crimson Slaughter out of the C:SM book- meh. It sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too. My guy isn't hefty enough, and I don't get all the toys I had before I had to abandon them and flee for my life. It's not exactly wrong, but it's not at all inspiring.

Rihgu wrote:
Isn't there an entire supplement meant to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter?

edit: I see you refer to that in the first post. Wouldn't using the rules to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter be the best way to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter?

Well you'd think so, but I feel it doesn't. They are fairly recent traitors. And they don't worship any gods. After spending a little time in the warp, where'd all their technology go? Why'd their drop pods and land speeders vanish? Why did Kranon drop to a Lord when he was the Chapter Master with greater stats? Where'd his centurion suits go? Why does he have autocannons for his troops suddenly? Etc, etc. it would make way more sense if he was a "renegade" supplement for the Space Marine codex. In my opinion anyway.

IF you did this (I think it's kind of cool, but also silly), you'd want to model your stuff as close to SM things as possible to deflect complaints from overly strict opponents. I.E. no Helbrutes, no cultist models (unless clearly and obviously equipped with IG or SM scout gear), and so on.

As long as they're WYSIWIG weapons wise, noone has any reason to complain. A bolter is a bolter, so who cares how they're painted.

-edit-

Another idea would be to use horus heresy rules? Maybe night lords tactics?

I wouldn't have a real problem, but if it already has a Codex/Supplement, why isn't that being used? It is the most canon representation of them, despite a lack of loyalist gear. We all know it's stupid that Chaos has a such a lack of more recent equipment, but it is canon. Otherwise, what's to say that my guardsmen can equip markerlights seeing as they've been fighting Tau for an entire campaign.

Your best bet is to ask your opponent.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I wouldn't have a real problem, but if it already has a Codex/Supplement, why isn't that being used? It is the most canon representation of them, despite a lack of loyalist gear. We all know it's stupid that Chaos has a such a lack of more recent equipment, but it is canon. Otherwise, what's to say that my guardsmen can equip markerlights seeing as they've been fighting Tau for an entire campaign.

Your best bet is to ask your opponent.

The difference is that Crimson Slaughter are not legion bred, they were a codex-astartes chapter until very recently in the timeline. The supplement even states that their codex training came into play during their raids. I sincerely doubt they airlocked their droppods when they decided the emperor wasn't really the great guy everyone claims he is.

To the OP, it's not even a case of asking your opponent. As long as your models have the right weapons you can just tell TFG "my raven guard have horns"

 Robisagg wrote:


To the OP, it's not even a case of asking your opponent. As long as your models have the right weapons you can just tell TFG "my raven guard have horns"

This is very true. WYSIWYG does not and can not be forced to apply to paint colors or sculpts. If someone throws a fit about them being called Cimson Slaughter, call them Madooblaga the Custom Chapter and now it is legal in EVERY way.

Rihgu wrote:
Isn't there an entire supplement meant to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter?

edit: I see you refer to that in the first post. Wouldn't using the rules to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter be the best way to represent Kranon and the Crimson Slaughter?

Try reading it again, maybe you'll get it after a third attempt. Then again, maybe not.

6th ed SM codex is perfect for representing Renegades.

I've always wanted to do an Alpha Legion list based on this idea.

Go for it! They are your toys aren't they?