Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Welcome Rules maker peoples! We are here to do the impossible. Make a Chaos Codex that feels like a Chaos Codex.

To start we have to ask ourselves what is Chaos? Chaos is in essence whatever you want it to be. It can be the Aaron Dembski Bowden version of NightLord Legion renegades who hate to use the Warp , it can be a Nurgle warband who has given itself completely to their god and whose only goal is to spread Nurgles diseases, or it could be a Thousand Son warband who still believes the Warp can be used for their own reasons.

The goal of this Dex is to let people build their army in the character they see it. I believe that the Chaos dex that we have now needs alot of small fixes and not a huge demolition. It started in the right direction and then just failed to see it through to its own conclusion (in what I believe was a fear of making it too complicated) So the goal of this book is to make the CSM feel more like CSM but not by adding a massive amount of rules and making it hard for your opponents to remember everything.

We will start with the Marks of Chaos. Marked units may only be joined by units with the same mark.

Mark of Tzeentch- Units with this mark add +1 to their invulnerable save. If the unit has the ThousandSon or Independent Character special rule they count their Mastery level as 1 extra than normal. (So generate 1 extra warp charge and know 1 extra spell) I did this for 2 reasons. 1 Tzeentch armies should feel on par with Grey Knights in the psychic phase and 2 to make regular Thousand Sons squads better since their lack of special wepons limits their flexibility.

Mark of Khorne- Unit with this mark gain Rage,CounterAttack. If the unit has the character or Independent Character Special rule they may reroll all hits to wound in a challenge. Pretty Standard I gave characters and IC of Khorne rerolls in a challenge to represent that just by the fact that they had risen to champion/Lord status they must have fended off many challenges from others.

Mark of Slaanesh- Units with this mark gain +1 initiative and Fleet. If the unit has the Character or Independant Character rule enemy units in base to base contact are at -1 WS. (I wasn't quite sure how best to represent Slaanesh depravity in combat terms so I went for an alluring Musk kind of effect where the enemy is a little woozy. Im open to suggestions)

Mark of Nurgle- Units with this mark gain +1 Toughness and -1 Initiative. If the unit has the character or Independent Character Special rule it gains FnP, if the unit has the vehicle (character) SR it gains +1 hullpoint.

The reason I made the distinction for characters and Independant Characters is two fold. 1/ I wanted a way to represent that the champions are more than just units with +1 attack. 2/ I wanted to be able to represent God affiliated Dreadnoughts. I will do this by being able to upgrade your Dreadnought to an Exalted Dreadnought which makes the Dreadnought a Character and then pick a Mark. This keeps it simple for opponents to remember what upgrades do what. (as opposed to having a seperate Mark system for vehicles etc)

Criticisms? Love? Hatred? NSFW comments?

Next up! HQ dun dun dun



Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ

Chaos Lord- Same everything except with no Champions of Chaos rule. Only addition is Master of Traitors adds Mark of Tzeentch makes Thousand Sons Troops.

Chaos Sorceror- Same everything except may be upgraded to Sorceror Lord for +15 points for 1 additional wound.

Daemon Prince- Same cost but Toughness 6. Wings for 30 points. Mark of Tzeentch for 25 points. Rest is same

WarpSmith-120 points. Gains +1 wound and gives any unit he joins TankHunter.

Dark Apostle-115 points. Gains +1 wound and has the DarkBeacon Special Rule. Any friendly unit deepstriking within 12 inches of the DA does not scatter.


Again minor tweaks. I dislike the idea of 2 wound Chaos HQ. Especially if you play Iron WArriors or Word Bearers. I plan on allowing Icons to allow for no scatter DS so should the Apostle have a different SR?

The Lord and Sorc are already pretty good as they are, Lords are SM captains with funnier toys. Sorcs are really nice for casting spells, especially WC1, mathematically speaking, a familliar adds about one dice to the dice pool, per cast. I think these could stay the same.

I would add bikes or jump packs to all generic HQs to make them more viable.

As for marks I would make them more versitile, so that all fit on both shooty and choppy units, for a themed army I dont want to have to resort to different marks depending on shooty/choppy. One idea could be to give Slaanesh eldar rending on one weapon, and khorne something like just preferred enemy, then you have 2 offensive and 2 defensive marks, which works both for shooty or choppy.

I would also want to tweak the normal CSM to maybe bs3, -1 ld (champion stays the same at 9), and option for all to take mutations for a squad price, I would not change the cost for 5, but drop the cost for extras, to represent that the normal csm are the worst of the SM that have rejected everything a marine stands for and the champions being the unique few who rise in power. Also one spec wep or power wep per 5. This would differentiate CSM from the marine type "take 10".

Also Forgefiends, Defilers, Mutilators and Warp Talons needs help :p

Warped and Weathered Power Armor-Squad Upgrade/swap:
Discription: These Marines have been in the warp so long that their power armor has weakened but has grown a daemonic aura of protection.
Special Rules: The power armor now is weaker at 4+ but the wear now has a 6++ invul save.

Also, One wear can be sacrificed during the enemy shooting sub phase to grant every remaining member a psuedo re-animation protocol save. The sacrificed wearer essential opened up a worm hole portal to siphon the explosive blast or absorb incoming fire into the warp. Either the warped and weathered PA becomes a 5+++ fnp/rp or a 3++ invul for the remaining squad. Sacrificing one marine to give the entire squad all storm shields for a turn is awesome! Sacrificing one marine for a fnp save is great too.

Following the guideline how Scatbikes became legit OP, Each Chaos Marine can now carry a 10pt heavy bolter. Then they can purchase malefic ammo as a squad upgrade. Also make is so each biker, raptor, terminator gain the ability to spam special and heavy weapons like eldar cheese scat bike.

I think its better to just not play against stuff you find cheesy or OP instead of crapping up every other dex with the same nonsense.

Daemon Prince- Same cost but Toughness 6. Wings for 30 points. Mark of Tzeentch for 25 points. Rest is same

I would suggest you follow Zagman's lead on this one - halve the price of the prince but double the price of the wings (more or less). Makes both winged and foot slogging princes viable.

i disagree with the 4+ armour and the ws4 marines, first off they are 10 000 year veterans i dont think they get worse shooting, and for the 4+ armour, they get hardened so they get tougher hide and skin and they get a bonus so they get 6+ feel no pain, the 4+ armour and 6++ seams kinda bad in my eyes considering their points cost, i also think that the marks and the god themed icons should be merged and give the marks a slight point increase, then for the icon of vengeance, the chaos space marines get the special rule "live to fight another day" if they lose a fight they have to roll a d6 and if a one is rolled they run away, if anything else is rolled they stay, or it can be used how age of sigmar is does it where a d6 is rolled and added to the number of wounds and if it is equal to or higher than their leadership then they die, or the least complicated one is the roll 2d6 for leadership and reroll d6. they should also get a special weapon that will make the sm jealous, my favourite is the idea of a daemonic bolter which reduces the user ws by 1, however it allows for assualt d6 shots at ap 3, strength 5 however it increases in ap and strength every time it kills a model, if it kills a vehicle with more than 2hp then it goes to max which is str 7 ap 1 other wise it only gaines 1 additional point, this will count as a special weapon, and for the extra benefits for the champs i think they should get the option to get a god specific weapon, for khorne they get the aok from the kdk codex, the slaanesh weapon gets the whip that -1 ws of the enemy and has rending ap3, tzeentch gets a staff that is a regular staff that gives the +1 to the pool of warp charges and ???? i dont know, if their are no sorcerers then the entire squad gets adamantium will , for the nurgle they get plague knife, for the cult troops the champions already have them for free


Automatically Appended Next Post:
now cult troops... kb, on the charge not only do they get furious charge they get to generate extra attcaks on 6's to hit, but hit their own guys, for the thousand sons, they need to defiantly get a points reduction or beef them, for example make them phsycic brotherhood and give them a heavy weapon maybe an autocannon or heavybolter with inferno bolts. then for warp talons they need a points reduction enough said. same with the forgefiend and the defiler. sorry for talking too much i just love this faction, they are what got me into the hobby and the daemon prince inspired me to get them, and i dont think gw will ever nerf all the codices, except for the necrons and the eldar, because i think there are way too many to nerf and they seem average, so ya but i know gw hates chaos so their reall is no reason to talk about this