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I've been giving some thought to building a primarily close combat focused eldar list, it seems like it could be a rather fun set up, but at the moment i am alittle stuck on afew assets of the list, so i wanted to see if anyone would be able to give some pointers, and suggestions on how to proceed.

Now i know that obviously i'll need to be taking aspect warriors such as Banshees and Scorpions. Im thinking mostly that i should be running fully manned squads on foot, but i know having serpents would be good as well, to help them get closer, faster, Even if they lack the assault vehicle rules, right? Now im also looking at Storm Guardians. Normally, sure, they are rather lack luster compared to other entries in the codex, but taking the storm host, it gives them free selections of power weapons, and special weapons. Again, the issues of the wave serpents usefulness rears its head for the guardians.

ally dark eldar raiders for the banshees and scorpions

Scorpions are pretty decent, I've had a lot of success with them. Infiltrate as close as you can, and avoid Knights and Dreadnoughts. You'll be able to take on pretty much everything else.

 stratassj wrote:
I've been giving some thought to building a primarily close combat focused eldar list, it seems like it could be a rather fun set up, but at the moment i am alittle stuck on afew assets of the list, so i wanted to see if anyone would be able to give some pointers, and suggestions on how to proceed.

Now i know that obviously i'll need to be taking aspect warriors such as Banshees and Scorpions. Im thinking mostly that i should be running fully manned squads on foot, but i know having serpents would be good as well, to help them get closer, faster, Even if they lack the assault vehicle rules, right? Now im also looking at Storm Guardians. Normally, sure, they are rather lack luster compared to other entries in the codex, but taking the storm host, it gives them free selections of power weapons, and special weapons. Again, the issues of the wave serpents usefulness rears its head for the guardians.

If you want to do Storm Guardians, definitely take a Storm Battlehost, Living Legends (Avatar), and Wraith Constructs (Wraithknight with Ghostglaive/Shimmershield)

Also I don't really think that Wave Serpents would be needed in such an army. Keep in mind that with the Command Benefit of Matchless Agility, you automatically run 6", so your army is extremely mobile and has a threat range of 24" with shooting. Definitely take Fusion guns for the Storm Guardians, and you most definitely need Warlocks with Singing Spears for some added anti-armor/MC punch. Plus, each one has two powers which is even better.

Footdar has always been set around an Avatar and Guardians, but the army is even better now. I mean, dang, he gives a Wraithknight 6 attacks on the charge, and with Ghostglaive he'll have StrD. I wonder if Reecius is going to do Footdar again this edition. I played Footdar back in 4th and they were very powerful, I'd love to try them out again.

Scorpions are about the only thing that does it. They can take on a bigger amount of infantry targets (and hurt MC's), and can get close easily without having the need for Raiders like other units would (Banshees and Storm Guardians).

Shining spears are also really good. They are weak off the charge (but most Eldar are) but can hurt a lot of different targets. And if you are feeling lucky you can put the farseer on a bike and roll for hammerhand to make them a lot better.

Avatar + guardians is good.

I'm taking a CC eldar army to an upcoming tournament (not a hugely competitive one).

They don't even have to be storm guardians. Defenders + avatar is still great on the charge, and their catapults+platforms does work. Extra points for putting Fuegan/Maugan Ra in a big Defender blob (splitfire the catapults at one target, charge another!)

Wraithblades in a Warhost would be good. Guaranteed 12'' movement. A cheap Wraithlord can be nasty too.

The key part about such a list is keeping the Avatar alive. He's so key to actually making unit decent in CC, and aside from being a monster himself, he'll have an even bigger target painted over him.

A big unit of banshees with Jain will murder pretty much anything short of terminators. Flimsy but choppy.

If they have Jain, they will do ok against terminators. By that I mean Jain will but they provide her and the exarch a bunch of extra wounds.

At their current price, Banshees are actually reasonable ablative wounds.

Close Combat Eldar should be led by a full Jetseer Council with Singing Spears, then cast Hammerhand for the combat to get S5 Fleshbane, Armorbane goodness.

Then include a Wraithknight if your TO allows.

Fill in with mobile scoring units; win.

i would maybe look into Harlequin allies? Veil of tears on a Storm Blob or unit of Banshees? I like the way that sounds

See the problem is that the best Eldar melee army is min jetbikes, seerstar and wraithknights.

Now ask about the best shooting Eldar army. And the best army in the game.

SirSweetroll,
To put a ShadowSeer in a unit, you need to take a full Masque (3 troops, FA, and voidweaver), unless you're playing unbound.

Realspace Raiders as your primary detachment - two squads of Kabalite warriors in Raiders to fill out your troops slots, then 6 fast attack venoms. Then take two Aspect Hosts for 6 squads in total of whatever mix of Banshees and Scorpions you want, or else just take one aspect host full of banshees, and fill out the rest of your close combat choices with Incubi. With all that, you'll still be just under 1500pts, so you can fill the rest of the list with whatever you think would be valuable.

If you're going with a Warhost, then go with Stormhost, Avatar and Wraith Host /w Wraithblades. All your Guardians and Wraith units will have a 6" battlefocus move, and so can haul ass up the field. Use your wraith units to bubblewrap your guardians so they don't all die on the first turn to bolter fire. You can fit guardians + wraith host into a 1500 pt list, but the Avatar is worth having for the buffs he grants to the army. You'll also have a bunch of warwalkers that you can kit out with brightlances, on top of the Wraithknight, so you should be okay for AT.

What about harlies. They have open topped transports and are good in CC.

Not sure on their formations but there may be one that gives you open topped transports for your banshees.

Anyone tried Banshees with Jain Zar as warlord? run run run (especially if in a warhost)

I have tried her twice once as warlord once not (in favor of Asurmen) both times I was against the same player once as free play and the second as part of a league so I didn't know who I would be playing. Both times he shoot practically his whole army at her squad and killed her first turn. In theory I don't think the banshees need a 12 inch run unless you are going first and there is no terrain inside of the 15 inches where you deployed them.

I have found CWE to actually be really good at what I call bully close combat. ie fighting stuff that is not dedicated close combat units.

Here are some of the units I have tried and what I thought of them;
*Swooping Hawks: This is actually the best close combat unit in the army IMO. They move 18" and usually charge 9" if needed. Most importantly though they can get a sunrifle and come stock with haywire grenades. You can also stick an autarch with wings and power sword in the unit. This unit regularly gets charges off on imperial knights and with a either enough hawks or some shooting support will take them down regularly. I really love units of swooping hawks these days as they leap about harassing scoring units or taking down vehicles and if they get somewhere dangerous they jump out.

*Striking scorpions + exarch w/ scorp claw: This unit is actually extremely tough to take down and can keep the opponent pinned in their deployment zone turn 1 with their infiltrate + movement and usually 2+ cover save. The regular scorpions are actually somewhat scary either against hordes or high toughness targets (thanks mandibles!). However they usually can only chip a few wounds off most dedicated melee units the turn they charge or get charged. The exarch hits like most armies dedicated combat characters BTW and is really what makes this unit worthwhile.

*Banshees + exarch w/ executioner: People talk smack about banshees a lot but I have actually come to appreciate them in the context of an aspect host. The secret sauce of the unit is to play on ITC style boards with some decent sized LoS blocking terrain in the middle. This way the banshees can run up and either score an objective or charge and kill the units the opponent tries to score objectives with. They are actually surprisingly mobile even outside the craftworld warhost as they get fleet + their additional 3". The executioner is a must BTW as it gives higher str and AP2 on the exarches attacks and thus greatly expands the targets she can engage. Even the Ld lowering effect is very useful in the context of going after objectives as you usually really want to break the unit.

IMO none of the above should be given a transport. None of them benefit enough from it to account for the cost except the banshees who honestly don't do enough damage to enough targets to warrant the transport most games. They are much better being used as distraction and harassment units.

*Storm Guardians in storm host w/ 2 fusion guns and 2 power swords for free: Honestly I hesitate to even talk of these in the context of close combat eldar. They are really quite bad at close combat. Even with an avatar to buff them they are really only competent enough in close combat to shave a few models off a mediocre melee threat. What they are really good at is being fast, cheap, meltaguns that can take down vehicles, harass scoring units, and score objectives. Their melee abilities are a nice bonus in this context as they can shift other MSU scoring units off objectives. IMO the avatar is a nice way to make them get back up from behind an ADL turn 1 and a pretty good counter charge unit but keeping these units bunched up and ramming them down the center of most opponent's will see a lot of dead guardians and 1 turn of CC that would have been done better and cheaper by banshees or striking scorpions. The other benefit of storm guardians in this formation is that the artillery and warwalkers in the formation are going to be blazing away with preferred enemy most of the game as long as you harass rather than smash.

You didn't ask but no discussion would be complete without the true CWE melee threats.
*Seer council: I have actually been using this both with bikes and without bikes. I honestly am starting to prefer the unit without bikes with an attach DE Ld debuffer or harlie Ld debuffer. The unit is cheap enough you can do without hit and run and can splurge for spears to make it a murderous shooting unit against vehicles (7+ spear shots) and infantry (3-4 psychic shrieks at -2 Ld). The unit also provides a variety of buffs around the board. The jetbike unit is ultimately a mobile tarpit most of the time. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though as you can usually bounce the unit around and get a multi charge against a vehicle and juicy units thereby breaking the unit, however smart players can and do mitigate this far too frequently for my liking.

*Wraithknight: The version with wraithcannons is good in melee and can kill most non super heavies with stomps alone. Under the ITC rules the ranged D is significantly nerfed. Even with the unerfed ranged D though I am finding the wraithknight ends up spending the game hiding in cover as if he leaves cover the opponent will grav him down in a turn. As such I am starting to appreciate the sword and board version more and more as the 5++ invulnerable and 5+ FnP allows him to venture out and do what wraithknights did last edition, control the board. BTW this is less true where you can take 2 of them as then you can overwhelm the opponent grav temporarily, or at least long enough for the rest of the army to do something.

If you noticed my opinions the wraithknight and seer council are the only 2 close combat units in the CWE codex that can be rammed down the opponent's throat and survive. The rest of the units will die too fast and if the opponent is smart they can send something those units cannot damage well. This makes the wraithknight and seer council unique in they are 2 of the 3 best board control units in the CWE army. The third one is wraithscythe wraithguard in a transport.


The last melee unit I want to mention is the avatar. He is actually pretty great as a counter charge unit but the problem is he is just not durable enough to close with the opponent quickly. I have had some success with slowly maneuvering an avatar behind LoS blocking terrain and using his aura as a regrouping/GtG undoing focal point of an army while simultaneously keeping a mid table objective under control.

Some other notes;
Wraithblades are not bad as escorts to the slower special characters but their damage per point and the number of weapons that ignore toughness makes them a not very efficient choice. The axe and shield option can do a pretty good job escorting a special character though.

Waithlords are extremely expensive for their speed. They are however actually pretty good with 2 shooting weapons in the wraith formation to let them run 6". This makes them fast enough that they can get where it matters and makes them less of a target as the exposed wraithguard and wraithlord running all over the battlefield are so dangerous. Always go double flamer though as it really helps thin out tarpits and take objectives.

CC Eldar, Ally in some Harlies, take Faolchu's Blade, stick an Autarch with a Banshee mask in there and drink the tears of your enemies.

Tries that once

2 Squads of 4 Skyweaver with Haywire Cannon/Zephyrglaive

That means 16 S5 AP2 on a charge + 4 S6 AP3 (Autarch with Lance) on a charge PER squad. You will mow down stuff like nobody's business. Anything that does not have Storm Shields will fail a couple of saves and die horribly.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
2 Squads of 4 Skyweaver with Haywire Cannon/Zephyrglaive

That means 16 S5 AP2 on a charge + 4 S6 AP3 (Autarch with Lance) on a charge PER squad. You will mow down stuff like nobody's business. Anything that does not have Storm Shields will fail a couple of saves and die horribly.

Actually what usually happens to skyweavers is that you put a units in cover and when they charge those unit you get to attack first and usually kill a large amount of the squad as they have very poor durability. If the skyweavers try to go around the units in cover you just shoot them to death. No grenades on a unit like skyweavers was criminal.

Otherwise I didn't mention harlies much as they are not CWE units anymore (just as I didn't mention grotesques). However I actually really like harlies in a psyker heavy CWE army. The CWE psykers make the harlie units durable enough to actually use their great attack abilities. Case in point the skyweavers flop grandly due to lack of durability but with a 2+ jink save from shrouded they are much more likely to survive to harass enemy units.