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Hello, something came up when I played a game with a buddy the other day, and we could not find anything about it in the rulebook.

If an opened topped vehicle jinks, can the passengers inside shoot at full ballistic skill during their next shooting phase?

If there is any sort of rule about it, can I get a page number of where you found it? Thanks for the help guys.

Well I imagine in this case the RAW answer and RAI answer would be different. The first place I'd look is in the rules for fire points, and then crew shaken crew stunned.

Breton wrote:
Well I imagine in this case the RAW answer and RAI answer would be different. The first place I'd look is in the rules for fire points, and then crew shaken crew stunned.

Crew Shaken/Stunned have nothing to do with jinking

They absolutely fire at full BS, even if the vehicle Jinked.

Indeed, Jink affects only the vehicle's shooting; no mention is made of any effect on embarked passengers.

Crew Shaken/Stunned have nothing to do with jinking

Thus starting out with pointing out RAW and RAI are likely different.

Breton wrote:

Crew Shaken/Stunned have nothing to do with jinking

Thus starting out with pointing out RAW and RAI are likely different.

Neither of which give you permission to pull random rules into the equation

Rules about when transports can fire, and damage rules/results that may include reference to the contents of those transports are hardly random when suggesting a starting point to interpret a scenario involving open topped transports and their embarked unit. Had I suggested looking in the rules for generating warlord traits and Instant Death, that would have been random.

Breton wrote:
Rules about when transports can fire, and damage rules/results that may include reference to the contents of those transports are hardly random when suggesting a starting point to interpret a scenario involving open topped transports and their embarked unit. Had I suggested looking in the rules for generating warlord traits and Instant Death, that would have been random.

We aren't talking about vehicle damage. Vehicle damage results have nothing to do with jinking.

No, they have to do with whether embarked units can fire, among other things, which is pretty on topic when talking about how to interpret whether a unit- say a scout squad on a jinking Land speeder Storm- can fire.

Where am I losing you? When I indirectly said that via RAW they can? Or that that is unlikely to be popular, so a look at some RAI and/or houseruling might be in order for friendly games people want to keep friendly, and a good place to start would be other instances where embarked troops might have their ability to fire affected like the transport they're embarked on?

Breton wrote:
No, they have to do with whether embarked units can fire, among other things, which is pretty on topic when talking about how to interpret whether a unit- say a scout squad on a jinking Land speeder Storm- can fire.

Where am I losing you? When I indirectly said that via RAW they can? Or that that is unlikely to be popular, so a look at some RAI and/or houseruling might be in order for friendly games people want to keep friendly, and a good place to start would be other instances where embarked troops might have their ability to fire affected like the transport they're embarked on?

Why would you not just say "jink affects the passengers also" instead of trying to add on unnecessary rules and make it unneededly complicated?

There's no RAI at all regarding people firing Snap Shots after a vehicle they're embarked on has jinked. It's a misconception that Jinking vehicles 'move wildly' to evade fire and then make people inside lose their footing. Nowhere in the rules there is a simple line supporting such view.

Because I didn't ask the question, and it wouldn't be my house.

If he's looking for the RAW he got it, and if he's looking for a house rule for his gaming group, he's going to have to take his own reasoning back to them, not "The guys on the internet said...."

Ergo look at similar rules affecting similar scenarios to see how the rules handled those, and use that as the basis for finding your own house rule. For all I know some turn of phrase in those rules, or another one might turn on the light bulb for them all.

I think the idea is that the crew are to busy evading to pay attention to weapons. No reason to think the passengers are so distracted

Indeed. The drivers may be focused on evading enemy fire, but the passengers have all the time in the world to line up their shots, lead their targets, and handle business.

 Vector Strike wrote:
There's no RAI at all regarding people firing Snap Shots after a vehicle they're embarked on has jinked. It's a misconception that Jinking vehicles 'move wildly' to evade fire and then make people inside lose their footing. Nowhere in the rules there is a simple line supporting such view.

Well the description of jinking in the blurb about flyers does imply such- the evasive maneuvers thing, not the knocking passengers off their feet thing- additionally being knocked off your feet isn't the only reason the may not be allowed to fire, the rapid direction changes can make it impossible to aim at a target long enough to fire.

Breton wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
There's no RAI at all regarding people firing Snap Shots after a vehicle they're embarked on has jinked. It's a misconception that Jinking vehicles 'move wildly' to evade fire and then make people inside lose their footing. Nowhere in the rules there is a simple line supporting such view.

Well the description of jinking in the blurb about flyers does imply such- the evasive maneuvers thing, not the knocking passengers off their feet thing- additionally being knocked off your feet isn't the only reason the may not be allowed to fire, the rapid direction changes can make it impossible to aim at a target long enough to fire.

Sadly, in 40k you should never use the description regarding as RAI, because they're just that - some italic text which isn't translated to the rules at all or just poorly.

But it IS a simple line in the rules supporting such a view.

Neither here nor there on the question of course, because it's not an answer to the question, which probably doesn't have an answer beyond nobody thought of it so nobody made a rule about it, making it one of those legal things that will have a lot of people diving into rulebooks for an hour(*) every time it comes up.

(*) Whatever time period it actually is, hour is exaggerated for most, but rolls off the tongue easily.

Jink
Some units favour speed and agility rather than heavy armour to keep them alive on the battlefield, dodging and weaving unscathed through hails of incoming fire.

When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink. The decision must be made before any
To Hit rolls have been made. If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire
Snap Shots until the end of their next turn.

Where in the rules part of Jink says people inside should be ever penalized by the vehicle opting for jinking? The italics part do say the vehicle dodges and weaves, but it's the description part - which has no bearing at all in the rules.

 Vector Strike wrote:

Jink
Some units favour speed and agility rather than heavy armour to keep them alive on the battlefield, dodging and weaving unscathed through hails of incoming fire.

When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink. The decision must be made before any
To Hit rolls have been made. If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire
Snap Shots until the end of their next turn.

Where in the rules part of Jink says people inside should be ever penalized by the vehicle opting for jinking? The italics part do say the vehicle dodges and weaves, but it's the description part - which has no bearing at all in the rules.

Exactly. Passengers don't have jink special rule. Passengers are not target of the attack. Passengers are not the same unit as jinking vehicle.
Rules are clear.
Stop messing in peoples heads

Breton wrote:

Crew Shaken/Stunned have nothing to do with jinking

Thus starting out with pointing out RAW and RAI are likely different.

had a few editions to clear this up or address it at all I think so I'm going with as written

I checked through the rule book today, and the rules for jinking are presented three times, on pages 84, 89, and 167.

Each entry is exactly the same, word for word, with no mention of passengers, like you guys mentioned. I really hope GW brings up this rule in 8th edition.

Well if they should "fix" this then they should also disable jinking while charging...