Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A really simple suggestion, really.

In lots of codexes, HQs tend to have access to mounts. For instance, Space Marines and Orcs have access to bikes, while the Eldar HQs have access to Jetbikes. Yet, the Dark Eldar - whose fluff gimmick is of a mobile, hard-hitting raiding party - lack this option. With that in mind, I think it would be cool if Archons, Succubi and Haemonculi are able to take Reaver Jetbikes; changing their unit type from Infantry (Character) to Eldar Jetbike (Character). In terms for cost, it should be for 12 points, owing to their poor Armour save compared to Eldar Jetbikes.

Thoughts?

I've always wanted this! Can it give them a 3+ armour save as well like guardian jetbikes?

shake my head...I dont understand how a bike gave eldar 3+ when a marine did not get a 2+ while riding a bike.

Taffy17 wrote:
I've always wanted this! Can it give them a 3+ armour save as well like guardian jetbikes?

If memory serves, Reaver Jetbikes only provide them 5+ armour.

You can have DE jetbike characters if I can have stormboy jump packs for mine. Deal?

Heh. Ah yes. I remember the good old days of being able to put HQs on reaver bikes and hellion boards... Of course, those were also the days when half of our wargear didn't work, and most units outside of ravagers, incubi, and troops weren't worth taking.

Dark eldar HQs on bikes and reaver boards and even with scourge wings makes a ton of sense. It would also make for a bunch of awesome conversions and fluff!

Mechanically, the issues you run into are archons with shadowfields being able to tag-team with an eldar seer star the way the baron used to. Just ban that, and you're golden! Price-wise, I would think something like this:

Scourge Wings: 10 points
Hellion Board: 15 points (because of the built-in weapons)
Reaver Bike: 30 points (because of jink, assault move, built-in weapons, and +1 toughness which meshes well with Feel No Pain, but reaver bike saves aren't as good as craftworlder bike saves.)

@Dakkamite: So you'd have essentially the same mobility as a bike boss, but you wouldn't get the better save and toughness to go with it? Sure! Make it cheaper than a bike, and you've got an awesome option for conversions!

Wyldhunt wrote:
Heh. Ah yes. I remember the good old days of being able to put HQs on reaver bikes and hellion boards... Of course, those were also the days when half of our wargear didn't work, and most units outside of ravagers, incubi, and troops weren't worth taking.

Dark eldar HQs on bikes and reaver boards and even with scourge wings makes a ton of sense. It would also make for a bunch of awesome conversions and fluff!

Mechanically, the issues you run into are archons with shadowfields being able to tag-team with an eldar seer star the way the baron used to. Just ban that, and you're golden! Price-wise, I would think something like this:

Scourge Wings: 10 points
Hellion Board: 15 points (because of the built-in weapons)
Reaver Bike: 30 points (because of jink, assault move, built-in weapons, and +1 toughness which meshes well with Feel No Pain, but reaver bike saves aren't as good as craftworlder bike saves.)

@Dakkamite: So you'd have essentially the same mobility as a bike boss, but you wouldn't get the better save and toughness to go with it? Sure! Make it cheaper than a bike, and you've got an awesome option for conversions!

But aren't "Craftworlder" bikes only 15 points; while providing the same staff, including basic infantry rifle, but with better armour?

mr. peasant wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
I've always wanted this! Can it give them a 3+ armour save as well like guardian jetbikes?

If memory serves, Reaver Jetbikes only provide them 5+ armour.

Why not? an Archon has the same save as a guardian off a bike? I'm messing, i think 3+ on a guardian jetbike is stupid. I believe Reavers add +1 to your save as wyches are 6+ off a bike and reavers are 5+.

 Dakkamite wrote:
You can have DE jetbike characters if I can have stormboy jump packs for mine. Deal?

Deal! Why isn't that already a thing? It would be awesome!

mr. peasant wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
Heh. Ah yes. I remember the good old days of being able to put HQs on reaver bikes and hellion boards... Of course, those were also the days when half of our wargear didn't work, and most units outside of ravagers, incubi, and troops weren't worth taking.

Dark eldar HQs on bikes and reaver boards and even with scourge wings makes a ton of sense. It would also make for a bunch of awesome conversions and fluff!

Mechanically, the issues you run into are archons with shadowfields being able to tag-team with an eldar seer star the way the baron used to. Just ban that, and you're golden! Price-wise, I would think something like this:

Scourge Wings: 10 points
Hellion Board: 15 points (because of the built-in weapons)
Reaver Bike: 30 points (because of jink, assault move, built-in weapons, and +1 toughness which meshes well with Feel No Pain, but reaver bike saves aren't as good as craftworlder bike saves.)

@Dakkamite: So you'd have essentially the same mobility as a bike boss, but you wouldn't get the better save and toughness to go with it? Sure! Make it cheaper than a bike, and you've got an awesome option for conversions!

But aren't "Craftworlder" bikes only 15 points; while providing the same staff, including basic infantry rifle, but with better armour?

Huh. You are correct.

Also, I'd like to point out that wings/boards, and bikes would let you put an hq in a hellion squad which might almost make them usable in non-competitive environments.

Other than the costs, which I might slightly tweak to keep in line with the Craftworlders, I really like the idea.

Slightly OT, I might make all the Eldar jetbikes - Windriders, Reavers, Skyweavers - all have 4+ armor. Shining Spears and Autarchs can have their 3+, they have heavy aspect armor after all. Maybe that belongs in its own thread.

If you're doing this, remove BB with Eldar, I don't particulary want to face an Archon with a Shadowfield and Jetbike tanking a Seer Council with a 2++ rerollable.

 Frozocrone wrote:
If you're doing this, remove BB with Eldar, I don't particulary want to face an Archon with a Shadowfield and Jetbike tanking a Seer Council with a 2++ rerollable.

Don't forget getting no scatter deepstrike with a webway portal!

Or, as an alternate option, make the Reaver bike and the Shadowfield mutually exclusive, but leave the option to take a Clone Field. (After all, a Jetseer Council can have a 3++ rerollable anyway, with Fortune plus Sanctuary, so it's not like that's broken.)

I've toyed with various rules along these lines, considering proposing them to my buddies down the road.

At least in the current dex I feel that a jetbike should limited to succubi only. Fits with the theme and keeps the shadow field thing above from happening. Cost 20 pts. Armour 5+ comes with bladevanes.

Skyboard should be for archons only. This keeps both HQs as viable as they were before (not considering the other BS mistakes that currently exist). Cost 15 pts.

Haemies can walk with their creations..

And ya remove battle bros already. And while were at it lets remove relentless from bikes.

Dominuschao makes a good point.

Reavers and Hellions stem from wych cults so it would make sense for only succubi to be able to use Bikes and skyboards.

Usually only the wealthiest of Dark Eldar can afford scourge wings so these would be more suited to Archons.

jade_angel wrote:
Or, as an alternate option, make the Reaver bike and the Shadowfield mutually exclusive, but leave the option to take a Clone Field. (After all, a Jetseer Council can have a 3++ rerollable anyway, with Fortune plus Sanctuary, so it's not like that's broken.)

I"ve thought of that in the past, but it's hard to justify in terms of fluff. It's not like a shadowfield is a bulky set of armor or something that would interfere with a bike or board.

@Others: If the archon can take wings or a hellion board with a shadowfield, it doesn't prevent the seer council problem. Turbo boosting is nice but rarely essential for a council. Same with the assault move. You already see Baharroth with a council because of his buffs to the unit; you'll see archons with the unit for the same reason.

Personally, I'm pretty tempted to just remove Battle Brothers as an alliance level. Most of the abusable ally shenanigans come as a result of battle brothers. All we really get out of it that isn't cheesy is the ability to stick a cool guy in a squad he couldn't normally join. Remove battle brothers, and we won't have to worry about cool ideas like archons on bikes breaking the game with super combos.

Making a reaver bike succubus-only would be reasonably appropriate in the fluff except that archons get old, get board, and can really do whatever they want provided they have enough resources. Plus it looks cool. Archons on hoverboards don't make much more sense as such devices are asosciated with the dark eldar equivalent of street punks, but again, rule of cool. Scourge wings actually make a certain amount of sense as an archon choice.

Succubi on bikes and boards make a fair bit of sense. Wings aren't unreasonable.

Haemonculi on bikes were a thing back in the day, and I'd love for people to suddenly be able to use their old models again. Scourge wings actually make a lot of sense both for them and for their grotesques & wracks. The board makes less sense, but rule of cool.

So yeah. I'm all for HQs with cool mobility options.

Haemonculus riding a Talos?

Into the fray, my child!

Succubus and Reaver Jetbike sounds fantastic though and really nice fluffy. I'd totally convert one if it's allowed in the new Codex.

Heck, I might convert one now lol.

@Others: If the archon can take wings or a hellion board with a shadowfield, it doesn't prevent the seer council problem. Turbo boosting is nice but rarely essential for a council. Same with the assault move. You already see Baharroth with a council because of his buffs to the unit; you'll see archons with the unit for the same reason.

Nah I should of clarified but it would just make the setup a little more clunky. Getting rid of BB is about the only way. Heck I used to run various phoenix lords in beast packs and cypher in bikes. Nothing truly prevents abusing wargear or rules. The main thing from my perspective is give each HQ their 'thing' without stepping too far into the others territory. I haven't pushed this too far here locally but I have got my ap 2 huskblade back! haha. That one small concession really brightened my gaming up. Its the little things. Unfortunately this means baron is still relegated to being an arena champ for now..