Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Any suggestions on how to start a Van Saar Gang?

Wargear, unit and play style suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Van Saar are generally a pretty good shooting gang, who also have great advantages when it comes to technical skills. They are really the only gang that can (assuming a bit of luck on the skills chart), completely ignore the Trading Post and completely focus on raising money through visiting territories.

Assuming its a new gang, models wise I'm always tempted to go for lots of models to try and spam the inventor ability as much as possible, but what's burned me on a few occasions its not producing anything, and not having the money to buy any equipment, due to the increased tax on larger gangs. I'm now sticking with the formula of Leader, 2 Heavies, 3 Gangers and 3 Juve's. Heavy Stubbers on the Heavies is always a good choice (the plasma is tempting, but I've found the Stubbers just too reliable to try something more risky). I give the Gangers Lasguns (again, reliability is key) and the Juve's I just give a giant glowing weak spot for my opponents to shoot at. You'll have a few credits left over, which I like to keep just incase something useful comes up (or I need to bribe/buy something off an opponent). This can cause you to start as the underdog though.

I've generally found a conservative playstyle works quite well. I've bottled quite a few games that I could have won just to make sure my Gangers survived, just to ensure they don't die and loose their skills (and I have a terrible habit of rolling "Blinded in One Eye", which is pretty terrible for a shooty based gang). Use the juves as cover for your regular gangers, place your heavies in position with a decent line of sight. They don't have to actually be able to see your opponent, use them in the same way as you might use a rook or a queen in chess when your opponents just down to their king and cut down the amount of board space they can use. If you are getting overwhelmed, its far better to throw your Juves at the enemy and run away with your Gangers to where your Heavies can provide overwatch.

Another thing is to try and avoid combat. Your Gang Leader and Heavies are the only ones that can become good at it, and the Heavies are far to valuable to waste with melee. If your up against House Delaque you might be ok, but against Cawdor or even worse the Goliaths, you really don't stand a chance, and no amount of fancy shooting will save you when you get thrown of a building.

Concentrating your skills into the Techno and Shooting charts is what I find pretty useful, since they provide good buffs to each other i.e. Armourer, Weaponsmith and Fast Shot means that you can throw down a lot of firepower with little chance of your gun exploding. Its one of the reasons why I use lasguns, as the chance of your weapons exploding is very small.

Lastly, a warning though. Getting a lot of Inventor and/or Specialist skills can annoy your opponents. Blasting away with Lasguns is fun, blasting away with Plasma Guns is slightly less enjoyable for your opponents.

Here's a plan that's a little outside the box. Don't waste your creds on heavies. They cost too much, they're unwieldy with move or fire weapons which often jam (admittadly not such a problem for van Saar) but imagine this. Spend that cash on more gangers and juves giving yourself a bigger gang with 10+ fighters right out the gate. More oportunities to collect income (heavies don't do that, they're lazy, that's why they get heavy) and more bodies on the board makes bottle rolls less likely and more potential for experience and thus a faster growing gang rating.
I also max out the allowance of juves to begin with. They don't stay juves long, if they sirvive intact they invariably become some of your more versatile gangers with all the skills and upgrades they gain along the way. and with all the tech skills on the go chances are you'll get a specialist along the way anyway.

It's unconventional but I do it all the time and it works a treat.

Actually, I'd say with Van Saar reliability of weapons is less of a problem, given the ease of access to armourer and weaponsmith skills. Save some money and give them autoguns perhaps?
Aspmoth,would I be right in thinking that you meant they could ignore territories and make money through the trading post, rather than the other way around?

Don't waste your creds on heavies. They cost too much, they're unwieldy with move or fire weapons which often jam

That's an interesting proposition - If you have lots of terrain pieces that are quite high, or have good line of sight, then a Heavies unwieldy nature doesn't really matter. Even if they don't shoot, you are can be claiming board space by the threat the Heavy provides. The other flaw that you might find with this is if you have no heavy but your opponent does (even worse on a Bulgin' Biceps enemy Heavy). I will agree absolutely though that it does give you a lot more credits for gangers, so its worth trying at least.

I also max out the allowance of juves to begin with. They don't stay juves long

I don't know about anyone else, but my Juves tend to end up pretty dead. Have to give my opponent something to shoot at right?

Aspmoth,would I be right in thinking that you meant they could ignore territories and make money through the trading post, rather than the other way around?

Making money works both ways I find, but generally I find its better to make money from territories, and keep your special gear that you make as a just in case. It provides a lower average credit income yield, but its more reliable I tend to find. I tend to start a gang and send out as many gangers as possible to territories to build up a decent stash, and then start visiting the trading post more when I've got a good supply going.

As a side note, our group allows trades between players, and also the option to buy gear offered to other players at the trading post (with the player who got offered the item but didn't buy it choosing how much the the other gang has to pay as a kind of referral fee), so I have more options for money making. Its not a common occurrence, but it does affect my view on money making a bit.

On the subject of Heavies, I've found they make pretty decent melee fighters. Apart from the fact that any member of my gangs with a long-ranged weapon invariably ends up with WS and A advances , the other Muscle skills are pretty good for beating people up.

The likelyhood of a fighter starting off as a standard long range armed heavy, losing his BS through injury, his weapon through "Disarm" or Captured, and gaining a bonus to WS to compliment the more combat related muscle skills... Well it's not impossible but maybe somewhat rare. Especially when a player has invested in a heavy weapon they're going to do everything they can to keep that investment paying off.

But if you were to set up a gang with a pair of heavies and specifically tool them up as combat fighters, there'd be no encumbering heavy weapons and every possibility of them becoming close combat monsters. Though typically they'll both just get BS bonuses and hand injuries just to spite you.

Friend of mine played a very succesful Van Saar gang that consisted of gangers with Lasguns + frag grenades + laspistols, a leader with plasma and chainsword and a heavy stubber. Think he started with one juve.

Basically he set up a gang as a small Imperial Guard (sorry..... 'Astra Militarum') platoon.

He kept his strategies at purely long range, constantly maneuvering to stay out of CC as much as possible.

Once his heavy got a plasma cannon things just got scary.

And the frag grenades - surprisingly effective.