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I just can't do it!

Finish the book I mean, its just... Not my style. Not right after Flight...

Anyways, I don't wanna start a debate about the writing I just want a plot summary. I got almost to the end, the Primarch fight put me off so that's where I stopped. I've got the gist of the story but if someone wants to recap that would be awesome. I feel like as soon as Blayke got mentioned and we went up the centre perfectly so many times I just started to skim, which is bad because I felt like the story could have deserved more of my attention. Some parts I liked but... I dunno...

So what happens? Enlighten me please.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fulgrim_(Novel)

Fulgrim finds a daemon sword, it talks to him, he listens. He turns to chaos because the sword told him too, tried to talk Ferrus into joining too but made a complete hash of that. Istvaan V happens, he kills Ferrus with the help of the sword, and suddenly realises what he's done. The daemon in the sword offers him escape which he accepts, so it possesses him, leaving Fulgrim inside able to see everything that he does.

Meanwhile Fabius is busy corrupting the rest of the legion with weird organs and Noise Marines get invented when a remembrancer summons Daemonettes with a piece of music and Space Marines try and play her instruments.

I'm pretty sure that's the gist, it's been a while. It's not a great book, it put me off the EC completely for a long time.

Thanks!

Come to think of it I didn't really mind most of the book, but a lot of the narrative seemed unanchored and formless. The Eldar were well written I thought but their involvement seemed rather short and could have been expanded on better.

Anyways, thanks again for the plot run down! Time to go plagiarize quotes from other authors! Lol

Am I the only one who liked this book?

But yeh that was pretty much the gist of it.

Well, the Laer were a pretty cool concept. I'm always up for more Chaos worshiping xenos. I also like the idea that the few survivors of their race fled into the webway and degenerated into the modern 40k Slyyth.

The main reason I don't like it is because Fulgrim and most of the EC start off being dicks anyway, so there's no sense of tragedy to their fall.

I could have gotten through it but then there was that "those who dream by day" rehash and I just flipped it closed.

Fulgrim gets ahold of a sword that is the single most glaringly evil thing in existence. In defiance of all reason and wisdom, he keeps it around. When it starts talking to him, instead of going 'Frak that,' and venting it out an airlock, he's all, 'Make paintings out of the feces of my own slaughtered crew? Sounds legit.'

...curtain down. Move on to the next book.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Fulgrim gets ahold of a sword that is the single most glaringly evil thing in existence. In defiance of all reason and wisdom, he keeps it around. When it starts talking to him, instead of going 'Frak that,' and venting it out an airlock, he's all, 'Make paintings out of the feces of my own slaughtered crew? Sounds legit.'

...curtain down. Move on to the next book.

In fairness, Fulgrim had no way of knowing about daemon weapons due to the Big E's strict "withhold vital information from all the people who are most important to my galaxy conquering plan" policy. Overall, it's just really awful execution of otherwise decent ideas. If the Emperor's Children were more sympathetic, if Fulgrim's corruption was more gradual and subtle, and didn't rely on him being an easily fooled moron, it could have made for a good, tragic tale of hubris.

The biggest shame is how the character of Fulgrim turned out. Look at the facts about him that we already had. Best friends with Ferrus Manus, but betrays and murders him. Only close friend of total outcast Conrad Curze, until he betrays his trust, possibly because he was genuinely worried about Curze. Warned by Eldrad about Horus but disbelieves him because Eldrad is a conniving, manipulative Eldar (he's not even wrong there). Obsessed with being perfect.

There's room in there for a great, tragic character. Instead we got a snobby, vain, cardboard d-bag whom it's difficult to believe anyone would want to willingly associate with.

Ultimately, I feel the choice to write large whacks of the book from Fulgrim's perspective was a mistake. I think that the larger-than-life picture of a Primarch necessitates their true thoughts and feelings remaining a mystery. I think the most successful HH books are the ones where we only see the Primarchs actions through a bystander character, and only have their observations through which to gauge the thoughts and motivations of the Primarchs. To do otherwise humanizes them too much. Any humanization should be done through their relationships (which is why Fulgrim feels like such a failure to me--the remembrancer character had so much promise in this regard) rather than identifiable internal monologues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There's room in there for a great, tragic character. Instead we got a snobby, vain, cardboard d-bag whom it's difficult to believe anyone would want to willingly associate with.

Lol, I'm sayin'!

 Jimsolo wrote:
Ultimately, I feel the choice to write large whacks of the book from Fulgrim's perspective was a mistake. I think that the larger-than-life picture of a Primarch necessitates their true thoughts and feelings remaining a mystery. I think the most successful HH books are the ones where we only see the Primarchs actions through a bystander character, and only have their observations through which to gauge the thoughts and motivations of the Primarchs. To do otherwise humanizes them too much. Any humanization should be done through their relationships (which is why Fulgrim feels like such a failure to me--the remembrancer character had so much promise in this regard) rather than identifiable internal monologues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There's room in there for a great, tragic character. Instead we got a snobby, vain, cardboard d-bag whom it's difficult to believe anyone would want to willingly associate with.

Lol, I'm sayin'!

They needed to either keep the Primarchs as unknowable demigods or completely humanize them. They tried to go halfway and wound up with a bunch of lukewarm man-children who just happen to be really, really good at killing stuff.

Personally I would have gone the other way and tried to completely humanize the Primarchs, but either way would be better than what we got.

We just needed a better writer on Fulgrim. ADB managed to turn ANGRON into a sympathetic character, somehow.

Also he managed to make Possessed Chaos Space Marines sympathetic and multi-dimensional which may be more impressive because at least Angron had that messed up backstory for years before the books.

 Harriticus wrote:
We just needed a better writer on Fulgrim. ADB managed to turn ANGRON into a sympathetic character, somehow.

Also he managed to make Possessed Chaos Space Marines sympathetic and multi-dimensional which may be more impressive because at least Angron had that messed up backstory for years before the books.

Angron was humanized. He was given a motivation people can relate to. Imagine being ripped away from your friends and loved ones and standing powerless as they're all murdered. Imagine being this ultimate badass warrior but having no control of your own life or destiny. That's how a good writer makes good characters.
So yes, I agree with you about the writer.

I liked Fulgrim because it showed how he was, beneath all of the demon stuff, actually seriously messed up from the start. The whole point of the demon was that it played with his insecurities and what not. I thought this was especially shown well through the artistic concepts, IE the paintings and music, and the theater scene.
I think the main reason people dont like the book is because of how arrogant and snobby Fulgrim and most of the EC come across. But they sort of had to be, because thats who the EC are. Furthermore, at the same time, we had the counterbalance and benefit of most of the book being told by Demeter, who was forced to watch as his entire legion turned to damnation and "evil"
I dunno, just my too sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fallinq wrote:
Well, the Laer were a pretty cool concept. I'm always up for more Chaos worshiping xenos. I also like the idea that the few survivors of their race fled into the webway and degenerated into the modern 40k Slyyth.

Noticed this too, while i was reading, and even though there isnt any hard evidence that I can recall seeing (GW never really came out and said so), the Laer are described as looking exactly like the Slyyth.

I actually don't have much of a problem with the book Fulgrim. It's all about how deep down, he was always an arrogant psychopath, which is much like Perturabo in that regard. It just wasn't as on the surface for those two as it was for psycho's like Angron and Curze. And that's okay for a few Primarchs.

I didn't like Fulgrim not because of the main character, but just because the writing was so slipshod.

Demeters awesome boltgun? Yeah, he lays it on the ground so many times, but its always just over there ready to be retrieved no matter what happens. Um, dude? Maglocks? A sling even? Stunning victory lads! Perfect! Up the centre! Perfect! We are the best of the best! Let me go back there now and get my gun that I chose to leave there, in a random spot on the ground, in a state of lucidity. Perfect. Warrior.

Fabius is just already a weirdo and honestly why wasn't he noticed earlier? He just steps into the scene already crazy with zero explanation as to why. Oh by the way Daddy Fulgrim, can I hack apart our venerated dead? Sure. Why not? I'm not even crazy yet, that's how truly marred I am!

Then there is Blayke... Some hack author fanatic who starts a cult and Fulgrim reads his book. First off why not just make the real world connection? I'd find it a lot more believable that William Blake was able to sway the mind of a Primarch rather than some hack who got binned for heresy.

Then there is the TE Lawrence quote. All men dream, but not equally. When is it okay to steal quotes from other authors and use them in your book? That's like rewriting Bilbo Baggins farewell speech to use for Leman Russ leaving the Wolf Wolves.

The Primarch battle was... Inconsistent with itself. I made your sword with my bare hands (which are liquid metal) and your sword can cut my face open. Your hands are made of flesh, Primarch flesh, like my face. You punch me in the face and break my bones. I punch you with my liquid metal hands, which by the way I made all the stuff in this room with my bare liquid metal hands just by touching it, and I can't bruise your skin. No wonder the IH have that whole weakness issue, their Primarch was a pillow fisted ninny who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag. Either that or someone totally messed up the story.

I tried to give it a chance despite my growing misgivings, but my better judgement won out. Such salaciously bad writing can actually make you less apt. No offense if you liked Fulgrim, that's more of a jibe at the author, whose name I can't recall. Graham Cracker? Dopes McNeill? Dopes Cracker?

The book is just over there by the computer, I could go look and see just how you spell Dopes Cracker, I'm sure that's a Polish name or something. I probably spelled it wrong. But I care so little about the book and its author that all I am capable of is intense internet ridicule from the comfort of my sofa.

I think some of you are missing the point of the story. It's not the fall of the EC. The EC have already fallen by the start of the story. Fabius is already well on his way into playing with SM physiology long before the Fulgrim book starts. He's doing this with the blessing of his primarch. the Lodges are already well entrenched.

Fulgrim knew what the sword was shortly after taking it. But, being a perfect warrior and extremely conceited being he thought he could dominate the demon inside, and he does, eventually.

The EC were already ticking time bombs of corruption. That's how chaos works. It waits until you're already corrupted and irredeemable before it shows itself, and by then, it's too late.

the EC and Fulgrim didn't fall in the book Fulgrim. They were already fallen, the book is just the summary of what happens when they really let go and embraced the chaos.

 Jollydevil wrote:
Am I the only one who liked this book?

But yeh that was pretty much the gist of it.

I liked it.