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Ah, the Weirdboy: that loveable spazzoid git that gibbers mindlessly and randomly spits out bolts and power vomit. Sadly, compared to the fluff, the Weirdboy is horrendously underpowered. True, he can spew some nasty powers (a S7 AP2 template is nothing to scoff at), but besides that they're outmatched by their other psychic counterparts.
Compare the Weirdboy to Librarians: who can take relics, among them the Armor Indomitus and The Burning Blade. They can even take bikes or storm shields. Or even Zoanthropes, who have Psychic Brood which makes them counts as ML2 and allows them to fire three Warp Blasts. Weirdboyz have the advantage of Waaagh! Energy and being dirt cheap, but that's pretty much it. Maybe buff their survivability by giving them a 5++?
Please share your thoughts on the Weirdboy and if it should/should not be buffed. If you think I'm just an overreacting fanboy, that's fine.

I feel your pain, though I'm not sure some of your comparisons are terribly fair. Zoanthropes are *not* very impressive. They're mostly just warp charge batteries for better 'nid psykers.

Librarians don't really do relics most of the time from what I've seen. Is someone in your group really sticking a burning blade on a librarian instead of on a chapter master/captain?

Eldar and daemons, I feel, should continue to be left out of things because they really probably should be superior (if more costly) psykers. ^_^;

I'll admit to not knowing orkz very well. What exactly are the main problems you're having with them? It seems to me like they're simply hard to include in an army because of the necessity of war bosses and painboyz and the dakka of mekz.. Perhaps make them characters that can be added to certain squads like eldar warlocks?

You know what feths me off? Weirdboyz can't get bikes. Not to mention that Orks in general cannot get jump packs, orc boars, or anything else.

I'll admit to not knowing orkz very well. What exactly are the main problems you're having with them?

As above re; bikes etc. No rulebook powers except daemonology. Ork powers are pretty much just psychic guns, and thats garbage compared to invisibility and other buffs. No weirdboy formation, meaning we lack both free buffs and that the weirdboys must compete with our HQ which is one area where Orks are less that total failures.

Yeah what dakkamite says is the biggest reason. It is hard to fit a weirdboy into a battle when you pretty much need to take a warboss, painboy or a big mek to be even remotely competitive.

Weirdboyz actually have really good powers and can get a lot of warp charges for cheap but they take up the HQ slots we need for painboyz and warbosses. If Orks had a weirdboy formation then they would be used (don't even need OP special rules, just need the slots to take them). Killbolt, Warpath, Da Jump, Power Vomit, and even Frazzle are all good powers and probably one of the better witchfire focused books in the game. Weirdboyz have really good synergy with Blitz Brigade and is one of my preferred HQs for the army (outside the nearly required Warboss).

So what I'm hearing is this:

* Weirdboyz aren't inherently all that bad.
*The current witchfire powers are actually pretty good for their costs, if less impressive than broken shenanigans like invisibility.
*Weirdboyz mostly don't see use because they eat up the HQ slots used for other semi-mandatory HQs.

So it sounds like what you ork gentz need is a librarium enclave/seer council formation, or at least a slotless option for weirdboyz so they don't compete with HQs.


Just off the top of my head, how does a formation of, say, 3-6 weirdboyz that grants them extra warp charges for every 10 models in their attached squad sound? It's a big enough points investment that you have to want the weirdboyz to be a significant part of your army, but it also gives you more dice to throw around. The fluff would be that they're around more boyz and thus have more Waaagh energy readily avialable.

You'd probably want to put a cap on it (3 per weirdboy?) so no one is harnessing tons of dice from a greentide. It might also help to say a given unit can't provide bonus warp charges more than once a turn. So no putting 6 weirdboyz in a single 30 man blob and getting 18 bonus warp charges out of it.

Just need a formation that is just 3 Weirdboyz and I would bring that formation nearly every game. Don't need anything extra as they already generate a ton of warp charges (when outside of a vehicle) and they give Orks a much needed boost in killing high armor and vehicles for cheap. Plus their melee attacks are quite nice with their force maul and Nob stat line. Any bonuses from a formation would just be gravy.

in 2nd ed i think they got weirdboyz right. basically the wierdboy should, IMO, be cheap as chips, and have about a 50/50 chance of doing something fething amazing, or having his head explode.

I like how my wierdboy performs in general. It's a 70 pt psycher nob with a force mace - what's not to love.

HQ slot and lack of upgrades is it's main problem. Wierdboyz would be much more fun if they had some insane wierdboy-only gear options and much more useful if they could at least get heavy armor to help them out against barrage like wiverns or in challenges against lowly sarges.

I also feel they need a little psy powers overhaul. Orky psy powers used to be decent at the start of 7-th. But it's power creep now and the positive effect of former psy powers diminishes.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I feel your pain, though I'm not sure some of your comparisons are terribly fair. Zoanthropes are *not* very impressive. They're mostly just warp charge batteries for better 'nid psykers.

Librarians don't really do relics most of the time from what I've seen. Is someone in your group really sticking a burning blade on a librarian instead of on a chapter master/captain?

Eldar and daemons, I feel, should continue to be left out of things because they really probably should be superior (if more costly) psykers. ^_^;

I'll admit to not knowing orkz very well. What exactly are the main problems you're having with them? It seems to me like they're simply hard to include in an army because of the necessity of war bosses and painboyz and the dakka of mekz.. Perhaps make them characters that can be added to certain squads like eldar warlocks?

I can see where you're coming from. But again comparing Zoanthropes to the Weirdboy, Zoanthropes have a lot of staying power with 2 wounds, multiple models and a 3++ (add Catalyst for FNP). The deadliest power a Weirdboy has is Killbolt (S10 AP2 Beam). And compared to the potential three Warp Lances that a group of Zoanthropes can put out, I feel they can even be out-dakkad when it comes to other Psykers.

Nah, I was using the Burning Blade as an example. Though a Librarian on a bike is not uncommon in our group.

Yeah, I intentionally left out Eldar and Daemons. I'd be fighting an uphill battle if I were to argue against them.

My main issue is not the power they can throw out, but their lack of staying power, no upgrades, and the fact that they're the Orks only Psyker available. And in a fluff where they pop up all the time, some have the power to take down Titans, and even an entire Waaagh! dedicated to them, it just seems a tad bit unfair. The best thing you can do with them is plop them in a mob of Boyz and hope for the best. I will gladly take a price boost if that means they can take at least some upgrades and staying power.

 koooaei wrote:
I like how my wierdboy performs in general. It's a 70 pt psycher nob with a force mace - what's not to love.

HQ slot and lack of upgrades is it's main problem. Wierdboyz would be much more fun if they had some insane wierdboy-only gear options and much more useful if they could at least get heavy armor to help them out against barrage like wiverns or in challenges against lowly sarges.

I also feel they need a little psy powers overhaul. Orky psy powers used to be decent at the start of 7-th. But it's power creep now and the positive effect of former psy powers diminishes.

I agree with the need for some overhaul for the Ork psychic table, especially regarding their lack of diversity concerning the types of psychic powers as well, especially regarding the blessing department which is the top dog of psychic abilities given that your opponent can only deny on 6's and Gork knows our boyz need some extra fightin' juice. I think it'd be great to show the subtle differences between Gork and Mork by having two separate psychic tables to represent each Ork God. Gork can keep the unsubtle direct damage witchfire powers and close combat buffs (I think warpath should give more than +1 attack, maybe something like +1 initiative or fleet to show their enhanced fervour/speed, we're not lacking in the attacks department anyhow). Mork can be our source of maledictions and sneaky blessings, maybe forcing the enemy to re-roll successful saves or doing the inverse of the Gork table and reducing their initiative. The sneaky blessings might be shown as giving shrouded or guiding the boyz attacks with unerring accuracy into the opponent's squishy bits, allowing them to re-roll failed rolls to wound or something like rending for the turn.

I also think that the Weirdboyz, if they don't have access to 'eavy armour, should at least have a base 5+ invuln to show the protection of the Ork Gods/them channeling WAAAGH! energy as a protective field.

I like the 70 pt weirdboy. The issue is lack of HQ slots...or more specifically, finding a player that doesn't mind you taking multiple CADs.

the beam is very nice, and if the weirdboy joins the tankbusters he gets tankhunter. That's a st10 AP1 autohit rerolling pens. unfortunately only 1 in 3 weirdboyz get it.

Da krunch and power vomit are nice, and the +1 attack is silly good if you play green tide.

I'd rather take 3 or more with green tide if the opponent doesn't object to 3 detachments.

Only power that is an outright fail is eadbanger which is just HORRIBLE. BS2 ork firing a focused witch fire which is a toughness test to deal 1 wound. Need 2 WC to target a model, pass DTW, roll to hit (BS2), toughness test (wounds a space marine on a 5+), and they need to fail any invuln saves and FNP to take a wound. Chance to do an unsaved wound to a space marine in terminator using 3 warp charges is something like 6.5% and that's not even a targeted spell (needs 2 charges to target) and without attempting to deny. Might as well not roll as your chances of perils is about the same.

JimOnMars wrote:I like the 70 pt weirdboy. The issue is lack of HQ slots...or more specifically, finding a player that doesn't mind you taking multiple CADs.

the beam is very nice... That's a st10 AP1...

ap2

Vankraken wrote:Only power that is an outright fail is eadbanger which is just HORRIBLE. BS2 ork firing a focused witch fire which is a toughness test to deal 1 wound...

iirc focused witchfires hit automatically. Anywayz, this toughness test is a problem. Most of the time you have 1/3 or 1/6 chance to cause a wound that will also need to go through invul and fnp. Even though this power has a potential to snipe out a sarge or special weapon dude, It just works so rarely.

 koooaei wrote:
iirc focused witchfires hit automatically. Anywayz, this toughness test is a problem. Most of the time you have 1/3 or 1/6 chance to cause a wound that will also need to go through invul and fnp. Even though this power has a potential to snipe out a sarge or special weapon dude, It just works so rarely.

Focused Witchfires follow all the same rules as a Witchfire but have the option to chose the target if you have extra warp charges. The problem is people rules lawyer that "because it doesn't have a shooting profile that it auto hits" which honestly feels like a leap in logic when the universal rule for Witchfires is that they roll to hit (beam, novas, and flamer templates being the noted exceptions).

And that's badly in need of some official clarification, since both 'Eadbanger and the new Tyranid Maleceptor power are basically crap if they do have to roll to hit. So much so that I have to wonder how GW plays it, in-house. (This is orthogonal to the debate about what the RAW actually say, and I'm not really interested in opening that can of worms.)

As a Bad Moons guy, I'm into the idea of taking a Weirdboy, for fluff reasons. And I think they're pretty decent for the points (although I should point out I'm still getting to grips with the 7th Ed. psyker rules, after a break of about 10 years from 40K). But I totally see where you're coming from in terms of him competing for HQ slot space.

Tbh I kind of miss the days of the old Warboss + retinue of Nobz and Oddboyz warband structure, à la RT era. If it allowed me to get a full complement of Oddboyz, I'd be quite happy for Weirdboyz to have a stat drop (they never used to be on a par with Nobz, stat-wise) if it meant they could be taken as a slotless HQ, like you can with non-Big Meks.


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I'd probably quite like to see the return of Minderz too; I always liked the whole idea of Weirdboyz being pressed into service as psychic weapons against their will. Although this is just turning into nostalgic wishlisting now.