Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Up until the last couple weeks, who saw anyone talk about points, as a fundamental concept, as the reason they didn't like Fantasy or anything else? I can't recall a single one.

Right on. Maybe someone can prove me wrong here, but I don't remember anti-points sentiment being a thing before GW recently declared points to be unfun. There wasn't a camp arguing against the use of points and you didn't see a lot of gamers showing off their pointsless scenarios and what not.

With the arrival of AoS it's turned into a fundamental issue on which the community is deeply divided. Did people change their minds about what they enjoy after GW told them to? Or were they in agreement with Jervis' gaming philosophy all along and just kept it quiet for reasons?

Either way I don't know why they're so confident in their ability to come up with and agree on exciting and interesting scenarios at the drop of a hat. On the other hand I guess they do have years of experience at pretending to enjoy games, so they won't be caught losing at having fun.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
What didn't exist was the notion of playing WFB without points at all. That is what AOS brought to the table, as a way to sidestep all of those complaints by simply removing the point of complaint.

Right. So it's not about making a better game, because attempting that just involves work and criticism and icky stuff like that. It's just about dodging complaints.

It's like solving the problem of trains running late by getting rid of trains. Turn the railways into roads. Finally we can just use our own transportation to go where we want to, without being pressured into riding trains. And you won't have trouble getting anywhere on time so long as you're not a stupid lazy jerk.

As a group AoS-supporters really have no right to complain about "toxic environments". There's plenty of you who are using AoS as a platform/justification for being a douche. Maybe that's payback for bad wargaming experiences or maybe it's just part of the eternal fanboy vs. hater divide. But it's a really bad way to represent a game that relies entirely on its players being agreeable and fun.