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I was wondering if Salvar chem dogs can 'steal' marine weapons and other equipment as they are promised they can keep any thing they find on the battle-feild.
Example - A salvar chem dog finds a space marine bolter, would he be allowed to keep it or would the commissar shoot him

A bolter is a bolter. An Astartes bolter, while being a work of art in its own right, is sized for someone roughly three times the mass of a regular human, and would probably prove to be uncomfortably heavy for the Guardsman to carry.

Not to mention that it's potentially a relic that belongs to the Chapter. Commissar or no, it is exceedingly unwise for the IG to piss off the Space Marines. Especially if they are, say, Space Sharks or Flesh-Tearers.

Isn't it even a crime for a normal human to possess as much as a single Astartes bolt shell?

I would figure it would really depend.

The upper command doesn't really need to do anything but will in special cases. like if one of them got a hold of some chaos artifact (probably immolated along with the guy/platoon that touched it)

Or the holy relic of a chapter (will probably cave in immediately to there demands of hand it over or else)

Minor xeno or Astarte thing like grenades pistols or shells they probably take the dont ask dont tell approach.

(edit: imo: seems reasonable)

If the Astartes found out that their weapons were scavenged, they'd go to war to recover it.

And the Munitorum aren't going to stick up for some expendable guardsman.

Space Marines would possibly gift their equipment as repayment for an honour debt, but they won't tolerate it being stolen.

Well to be honest i think they see it, It's not really stealing if they loot if off a fallen space marine. Better i take it then it goes to waste sort of thing.

Space Marines recover their fallen in so far as is possible... and if the Chem Dogs could get it, then the Chapter certainly could get it.

Looting it off dead bodies would certainly be seen as stealing. They'd want it back.

keep in mind all SM equipment tends to be seen as ancient and holy relics. even if a member of the Chem dogs was willing to steal it for himself, I imagine the IoM has a "... not including holy relics!" clause. which would apply to every peice of SM equipment.

Also SMs generally try to recover the bodies of their fallen pretty quickly, Imagine trying to scavange SM gear on a battlefield while a SM apocathary is activly retriving geneseed.

Honestly the soldiers would be better off nicking a purity seal or something. which could proably be traded or sold for a fair bit

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind all SM equipment tends to be seen as ancient and holy relics. even if a member of the Chem dogs was willing to steal it for himself, I imagine the IoM has a "... not including holy relics!" clause. which would apply to every peice of SM equipment.

Also SMs generally try to recover the bodies of their fallen pretty quickly, Imagine trying to scavange SM gear on a battlefield while a SM apocathary is activly retriving geneseed.

Honestly the soldiers would be better off nicking a purity seal or something. which could proably be traded or sold for a fair bit

Probably Astarties knives

"You call that a knife?"

Probably Grenades too.

Astarties guns are also in some cases bio locked to the astarties them selves so chances are after a while they wouldnt bother nixing em. (since they cant use em)

They could steal anything and with the IoM being so bad at keeping track of where everybody and everything is i wouldn't be surprised if they managed to hide a stolen bloody dreadnought

But if you get caught with so much as a stolen Astartes boltgun shell you are screwed

Commisars or upper command could maybe be avoided or "hit by friendly fire" but imagine if the chapter finds out you have it... you do not want that

GAdvance wrote:
They could steal anything and with the IoM being so bad at keeping track of where everybody and everything is i wouldn't be surprised if they managed to hide a stolen bloody dreadnought

But if you get caught with so much as a stolen Astartes boltgun shell you are screwed

Commisars or upper command could maybe be avoided or "hit by friendly fire" but imagine if the chapter finds out you have it... you do not want that

Im pretty sure this is not the case for Chapter based stuff.

AS they are pretty autonomous
it would be entirely different if it was a PDF they where supporting. or attacking.

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind all SM equipment tends to be seen as ancient and holy relics.

This. It's always written like "this bolter is 3,000 years old and has a mark for each campaign it was in, and was fine-tuned by a master of the forge, incorporating his heraldry" or whatever. And yeah, a Marine bolter would practically be a heavy weapon by human standards.

If the Chapter finds out, that guy's song is sung. Besides, I am pretty sure he is dead even if the Chapter doesn't find out. Stealing sacred relics probably would be considered a great heresy, and warrant a punishment far worse than the business end of a Commissar's pistol.

 Desubot wrote:

GAdvance wrote:
They could steal anything and with the IoM being so bad at keeping track of where everybody and everything is i wouldn't be surprised if they managed to hide a stolen bloody dreadnought

But if you get caught with so much as a stolen Astartes boltgun shell you are screwed

Commisars or upper command could maybe be avoided or "hit by friendly fire" but imagine if the chapter finds out you have it... you do not want that

Im pretty sure this is not the case for Chapter based stuff.

AS they are pretty autonomous
it would be entirely different if it was a PDF they where supporting. or attacking.

True, but the IoM is a big place to hide in

Not when you're an IG Regiment. You go from planet to planet, fighting the Emperor's Wars until you stop, which means (in 99.99999% of cases) you died.

There's also the fact that an IG Regiment doesn't normally carry bolters, so getting ammunition for it would be difficult. Also, the fact that you have to get ammo for it at all is a big negative to carrying it. Las-guns are lightweight, their powercells can be recharged by any electrical generator, wall socket, exposure to sunlight or even to a campfire. Wasting the Emperor's bolt-shells to outfit some guy who isn't authorized to carry one is a fate punishable by Worse Than Death, such as Servitor-ship to the offended Chapter.

So, here you are, some guy who walks through the worst landscapes imaginable, already toting 50 to 100 kilos of gear, and you want to carry a 5 kilo pistol? Or a 15 kilo rifle? And the magazines full of those huge, heavy rounds they fire? Please. Infantrymen try to reduce the weight of their loads as much as possible.

Not only that for the most part (i know some fluff places has it that they can) normal humans cant even use an astarties bolter without shattering something (Game wise they are the same as a guard bolter but from what i recall these things are built for the person firing it). probably a Sisters bolter if they get THAT lucky.
But taking that would be real bad.

Sure. they can take it, the commissar do not care. Likely they will not survive the battle anyway, so who cares. Even if they do, they will pretty soon give it up for the next scavenged weapon anyway. If the Astartes get all pissed about it, give the bolter back. And die if the marines are jerks, but who cares about your dog's life anyway?

Whether Savlar Chem-dogs 'can' steal, they do. Whether they 'can' keep it, they manage it. Thievery is part of their culture. So is fencing. If they figure an item is too hot to keep they'll sell it... back to the original owner if possible. Props for the irony.

Most likely Savlar officers can get away with keeping exotic gear like bolters. Line troopers not so much. All those Commissars hanging around and all. And don't kid yourself Commissars DO care. They're raised from childhood to be sticklers for rules, and will casually shoot an offending trooper as an object lesson to the rest. Of course Commissars assigned to the Chem-dogs probably disappear a lot, but there's always another starched shirt waiting to take his place.

Everything a Chem-dog can't openly use gets stashed for bragging rights or fenced. A Space Marine bolter would be too large and obvious to use openly or hide in his duffle bag, so it would most likely it would be fenced ASAP. A Sororitas or Guard bolter, though... yeah, that'd be kept and probably used by someone in the regiment.


My two cents.

Reading up a bit on the Chem-Dogs...

They're a penal legion given the remit to: " they could keep any war loot they took off the enemy, but if they broke the law they would be sent back to Savlar."

Seems Astartes and Sororitas gear would be right out, though it is noted they steal from other Guard Regiments.

Keep in mind savlar chem dogs rules revealed that
A) they have a borderline supernatural ability to steal just about anything.
B) you could give sergeants and HQs Archaeotech!

They could definitely get a bolter and can definitely hide it.

They can take them if nobody knows that they took them, but the marines in question would be mildly annoyed if they found out. There's also the fact that most astartes weapons are too big for normal men to wield

Inquisitor warbands also have access to bolters. No need to piss off a Chapter or Sisterhood order... piss of an inquisitor instead :-p.




Yes. I know that's even worse.

To be fair

i think even some necromunda scum can get there hands on bolters anyway so its not like it never existed but those bolters are arbte ones which i would figure is what inquisitors would mostly use.

(IIRC)

It really depends on how well he can hide it, and who knows about it.

Commissar may or may not shoot him depending on how much he cares.

If Space Marines find out you stole a bolter, you're dead meat.

I'm shocked that anyone would think a Commissar would give pilfering a pass. They're fanatics who are raised by the Schola Progenium to enforce Imperial rules and discipline. Stealing from other Imperial forces is a waste of resources that does not support the war effort, therefore it is a capital offense. Blam.

We cannot use Ibriam Gaunt or Ciaphas Cain as the standard by which Commissars are judged. Yarrick is far closer to the by-the-book norm, but all three are extremely unique epic characters in a system that does not tolerate deviation from established norms, and which trusts written canon from 10,000 years ago before the judgement of any modern individual.

My two cents.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Inquisitor warbands also have access to bolters. No need to piss off a Chapter or Sisterhood order... piss of an inquisitor instead :-p.




Yes. I know that's even worse.

Depends on what Inquisitor you piss of. Not all Inquisitors are powerful. An Inquisitor is nothing on his own, it all depends on what allies he has.

Actually, all Inquisitors are powerful, it comes with the Rosette. A given Inquisitor might not have a bunch of guns and soldiers at his/her disposal at the moment but the symbol of the Rosette causes most Imperial citizens presented with it to gak themselves, because no matter how unpopular a given Inquisitor is, the Inquisition, as a body, does not tolerate disrespect of its authority (which is effectively limitless).

So, sure, give an Inquisitor some guff... but don't be surprised if, a week later, the Arbites kick down your door in the middle of the night and black-bag you, never to be seen again. Or if your Guard Company is sent off, apart from your Regiment, to purge a Hrud Migration on some forgotten world. Alone.

 Psienesis wrote:
Actually, all Inquisitors are powerful, it comes with the Rosette. A given Inquisitor might not have a bunch of guns and soldiers at his/her disposal at the moment but the symbol of the Rosette causes most Imperial citizens presented with it to gak themselves, because no matter how unpopular a given Inquisitor is, the Inquisition, as a body, does not tolerate disrespect of its authority (which is effectively limitless).

So, sure, give an Inquisitor some guff... but don't be surprised if, a week later, the Arbites kick down your door in the middle of the night and black-bag you, never to be seen again. Or if your Guard Company is sent off, apart from your Regiment, to purge a Hrud Migration on some forgotten world. Alone.

Maybe, but plenty of Inquisitors have 'disappeared' after pissing of the wrong people. If a Guard commander does not wish to obey an Inquisitor's orders and just gets rid of him, who is going to find out? They could not do that with a high-profile, popular Inquisitor, he would be missed. But the Inquisition is a huge organisation, and most Inquisitors are nobodies. The Inquisition has better things to do than investigating every single Inquisitor that gets lost in action. An Inquisitor is nothing without powerful connections.

Inquisitors can wield incredible power, but they do not do so by default. It all depends on how smart they are in dealing with other powerful people.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Maybe, but plenty of Inquisitors have 'disappeared' after pissing of the wrong people. If a Guard commander does not wish to obey an Inquisitor's orders and just gets rid of him, who is going to find out? They could not do that with a high-profile, popular Inquisitor, he would be missed. But the Inquisition is a huge organisation, and most Inquisitors are nobodies. The Inquisition has better things to do than investigating every single Inquisitor that gets lost in action. An Inquisitor is nothing without powerful connections.

Inquisitors can wield incredible power, but they do not do so by default. It all depends on how smart they are in dealing with other powerful people.

A commander of an Imperial Guard regiment would not get away with taking out an Inquisitor unless they were incredibly subtle and skilled. Inquisitors have various people working for them (as well as other Inquisitors keeping tabs on them) who'd try to find out what happened. All Inquisitors are very powerful individuals; they are compared to Chapter Masters, Rogue Traders and very high ranking officers. Even if one goes a bit overboard and gets silenced for it the Inquisition as a body has a vested interest in stamping down on the perpetrators to ensure proper respect for the Rosette.

Also; I don't think "plenty" of Inquisitors have been disappeared by loyal Imperialists. Other than the one the Dark Angels are implied to have taken out who else is there? I imagine a lot of the time it does happen either their acolytes or another Inquisitor works out what happened to them anyway. Worst comes to worst they could easily just make an example of the whole group of suspects to cement Inquisitorial authority.