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In my latest blog post I talk about how to enjoy the game and the power of positivity - https://hobbykiller.wordpress.com/2015/08/05/at-the-end-of-it-all-we-are-just-playing-a-game/

What I don’t understand is why people that don’t like the game continue to post on forums that are being positive about the game in a negative and destructive manner

My grandfather destroyed a TV when a team he was supporting lost the championship game, back when ties were resolved by a coin flip. He wasn't a contract football player, he didn't spend a ton of cash to travel to sweden and a TV was a serious investment of money in communist country. He still was pissed enough to destroy it. And you wonder why people who spent 800$ or more on army, on top of time spent painting stuff, are angry on forums about AoS and WFB getting killed?
You wonder why someone who had to buy a 2250pts army to start playing WFB, can be vocal about his unsatisfaction with the AoS right now?

No sorry - maybe my point was unclear - I get why people are cross - I have been in the hobby a very long time and have spent thousands of pounds on GW minis and just as much attending tournaments around the world - I even feel some of that anger myself.

To be totally clear I am not saying people can't be angry or cross or sad or whatever negative feelings they have.

All I am saying is that some of us like the game and are working towards dealing with its issues - I don't go on a Pokemon forum and tell them that magic is a better game (as an example and have never played either game) am just asking for those that don't like it to not bombard those of us that do with constant negativity - your feelings are not wrong and your opinion and conclusions are of equal worth - but we have heard them loud and clear and I don't think constant reiteration is good for anyone.

If I have a bad meal in a restaurant I might tell people about it but I don't go back there every evening and tell every person in there about it...

Makumba wrote:

What I don’t understand is why people that don’t like the game continue to post on forums that are being positive about the game in a negative and destructive manner

My grandfather destroyed a TV when a team he was supporting lost the championship game, back when ties were resolved by a coin flip. He wasn't a contract football player, he didn't spend a ton of cash to travel to sweden and a TV was a serious investment of money in communist country. He still was pissed enough to destroy it. And you wonder why people who spent 800$ or more on army, on top of time spent painting stuff, are angry on forums about AoS and WFB getting killed?
You wonder why someone who had to buy a 2250pts army to start playing WFB, can be vocal about his unsatisfaction with the AoS right now?

yes but no one is forcing you to read the posts or destroy the discussions that people want to have especially if they do enjoy it... you can be angry as much you want to be but thrusting that anger at people who are "not" angry is just sad and ruins it for a lot of people... I want to have discussions on AoS with lore and tactics especially on dakka (but so far I am having to use other less "vocal" sites to do so)...but they get hijacked by "vocal" people who want to say "AoS has no tactics" or "AoS suck its childlike and the rules are stupid" ok we get it, you do not like it... make your own posts and keep it there, stay on the actual topic of the poster.

in your analogy its like a new fan of the same team (that has suddenly changed all its players, its name, its style etc, its more or less a new team now) as your grandpapa "supported" trying to have a discussion on the team with a fresh start and all your grandpapa does is stick her neck in and say "they lost the championship they are a stupid team, I broke my tv because of them, you are stupid for supporting them, I hope they lose again"... maybe your grandpapa just needs to shut up and let the others talk now? time to move on sorta thing..

Well I think i can address two points at least. since I have a feeling the OP thought of myself among others when it came to those individuals who complain about AoS.

First point been, its the honnymoon period still. AoS is simply still such a new system that its going to be heated on both sides for some time yet before it cools down. Considering as you have accepted the sizable investment both pro and against have made into fantasy warhammer before.

Second point would be whilst there is people who are still complaining about AoS (see point one) there is a reason some of us keep piping up and thats because users when talking about AoS feel the need to trash or insult the previous edition of fantasy, using a rather strange phrase "before the body is even cold, you're dancing upon its grave"
and some of us feel the need to point out that before AoS fantasy was not that hate filled monstrosity only encouraging power players and hate and was literally ruining peoples lives, by the sounds of some users. Which usually leads naturally to those users pointing out whats bad about AoS to the people declaring it greater than sliced bread and the destroyer of the evil previous edition. You'll note a surprising less amount of people complaining if at all in threads like "AoS strategies" or "Best unit to take for ect" than a thread titled "Who needs an outdated point system anyway!" or "Why AoS is so much better than fantasy"

Maybe people would let fantasy rest, if some AoS supporters stopped using the corpse of 8th to dance upon with their new Sigmarines in arm. Declaring the witch is dead. Right in front of players who are legitimately sad to see fantasy go, so soon after.

People may complain about AoS but there's no shortage of people antagonizing them.

Fair comment

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:
Well I think i can address two points at least. since I have a feeling the OP thought of myself among others when it came to those individuals who complain about AoS.


People may complain about AoS but there's no shortage of people antagonizing them.

there is also no shortage of players antagonizing the new AoS players because they choose the "wrong, badly made, stupid gw" game... its a circle of hate of sort of thing and everyone is feeding everyone's behavior... just today someone posted about how he played a scenario and enjoyed it and the reply he got was "why don't you just be a douche and use flying units all game and not do anything" (not exactly those words but the whole gist of it)... because apparently if the rules let you do it then it must be done.

remember some of us got into the hobby because of AoS (or got back into it) its not like we are responsible for the death of WHFB, no one forced you to invest money into the game nor has anyone taken away your toys, why should your "suffering" affect my enjoyment of a new game, I am not dancing on anyone's grave, I feel for your loss (a little, I am not that picky, just recently I gave away some pretty rare miniatures to random folk for free, I am one of those type of people) but well... I also do not care :/ because in all honesty, your loss is not my own.

I'm glad to see a push for more positivity. The forums have been grating. These sorts of reactions happen all the time everywhere there is change.

There's a lot of feeling of entitlement. People took ownership of Warhammer because they loved it so much, and feel as if they are being personally attacked when the creators make changes. Everyone who supports these changes becomes an enemy. It's common, and I understand it, but you'll live a happier life if you learn to move on and be open to change.

I think we should all be glad that Warhammer is still alive at all. Games Workshop owes us nothing. They are taking a stab at reviving a product line that was becoming unsustainable. That shows they truly care.

I think there is a number of things that is a cause for friction here.

First honestly GW needs to talk about what they are doing and actuly respond for feedback, trying to find out why people where not buying certen products.
This includes former custermers.
They have killed a system I didn't want to play, and replaced it with a system I want to play less. (The way fantasy went was the wrong way for me for 10 years or so now)

We still don't know future plans for most of the army's and a lot of players that would be positive right now are left hanging on again. Possibly there army's updated or dropped, this is bad for people now and people just sitting around waiting again is bad for positivey.

Second I think there is no other way to look at it, Age of sigmar is half a game.
The rules are bland without way better support via good missions and some structure.
As a community saying the game is better than other games at naritives and campagins looks a little silly.
Wether they keep with the no points or not I think GW needs to do a lot more if they want Age of Sigmar to be a success.

3rd is mini release, downcast eternals are ok, but the only person that liked them here was the space marine fan.
Everyone other is again waiting to know what's happening with there army, extending the frustraitions out.
And like often the case, People feel that they just not important enough to bother keeping up with GW.
We realy don't have a big enough community to suffer this so consistently over the years here.

4th I think is also most relivent, this was the warhammer fantasy part of the forums, and with age of sigmar being the next version, but so difernt also.
Maybe it should have been a seperate forum, as it has divided the players possibly so much.

These are just personal thoughts on the situation and why it's so dividing.
We did some test games and lost a fantasy player, a second one is wanting to continue with the last set of rules and I can force the last player to play. But he doesn't like it.
So right now I am likely just lost a game I been hoping to see revitalised.
So I am discussing it and reading up on the forums and rulers still for hopefulness, but I honestly do be leave that it's a dead game without GW stepping up a bit.

I liked your blog entry. While I admit that AoS is barebones and lacks some very crucial aspects (not just talking about the points but cover and stuff too), I don't go ranting about it.

From the very beginning I knew that AoS was not a game for WFB fans or competitive players. Now I'm not trying to say that it's good or right thing to do, but I am a person of reason - I see it for it is, and it is not WFB. Don't expect it to be WFB, because it's not meant to be it.

If you don't like it, you have all the rights to not do it. I'm a libertarian - I support everyone's rights. But you have to be really, really stupid if you think that trying the game out with a totally negative attitude, expecting it to be something it is not you're going to have any positive experience. As simple as that.

The game is not bad, it's lacking, but it is not bad. It is different. You don't like it, scram. It's not a game for you. As simple as that.

But if you try it with positive attitude and want to find out what it is like... OF COURSE you aren't GUARANTEED that you'll have a good time, you can always not like something, but at least there's chance that you will find it enjoyable!

As for Makumba's post... I'm sorry, I don't want to talk bad about your grandfather, but if he did something like that just because his favourite dozen grownup men kicking a ball on grassy field lost due to a coin flip, then it doesn't serve well as an example, it just speaks bad about him. To me it's on the same level as teens hurting themselves because a One Direction member left the band, both are overreacting and, by definition, it is not good.

If GW didn't want to piss off customers they shouldn't have killed WHFB and immediately replaced it with AoS. If they'd killed WHFB a couple of years ago and then released AoS, they would have gotten a lot less hate, likewise if they'd kept WHFB running for a couple of years alongside AoS, they'd have gotten a lot less hate.

GW did it practically the worst possible way, they ran a campaign called "The End Times" with lots of new expensive products but didn't actually tell anyone "This is it", then they left customers hanging for 6 months, letting the customer base live off nothing but rumours, then with almost no warning released their new game that replaced WHFB but was nothing like WHFB and which was plainly obvious that a lot of the old customers would not like.

I will say I also don't really understand why people feel the need to address the disgruntled WHFB players by telling them "it's only a game" or "it's for the best" or "well WHFB wasn't selling" or "you are playing it wrong" or write blogs about why we shouldn't be unhappy. Do you honestly think telling people "At the end of the day this is just a game – and if you don’t like it then don’t play it – you will be missed – but I can understand – all I (and the people that enjoy AOS) are asking is that you let us get on with it." is actually going to reduce the amount of volume of the complaints? Come on, don't be silly, if you want someone to go away you don't just jab them with a stick and tell them to go away.

If you're unhappy with the level of complaints, go tell GW about it, they're the morons who are responsible for it, except good luck getting them to listen to you.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If GW didn't want to piss off customers they shouldn't have killed WHFB and immediately replaced it with AoS. If they'd killed WHFB a couple of years ago and then released AoS, they would have gotten a lot less hate, likewise if they'd kept WHFB running for a couple of years alongside AoS, they'd have gotten a lot less hate.

GW did it practically the worst possible way, they ran a campaign called "The End Times" with lots of new expensive products but didn't actually tell anyone "This is it", then they left customers hanging for 6 months, letting the customer base live off nothing but rumours, then with almost no warning released their new game that replaced WHFB but was nothing like WHFB and which was plainly obvious that a lot of the old customers would not like.

I will say I also don't really understand why people feel the need to address the disgruntled WHFB players by telling them "it's only a game" or "it's for the best" or "well WHFB wasn't selling" or "you are playing it wrong" or write blogs about why we shouldn't be unhappy. Do you honestly think telling people "At the end of the day this is just a game – and if you don’t like it then don’t play it – you will be missed – but I can understand – all I (and the people that enjoy AOS) are asking is that you let us get on with it." is actually going to reduce the amount of volume of the complaints? Come on, don't be silly, if you want someone to go away you don't just jab them with a stick and tell them to go away.

If you're unhappy with the level of complaints, go tell GW about it, they're the morons who are responsible for it, except good luck getting them to listen to you.

So you're trying to tell me that when you saw the beginning of that huge campaign called End Times you haven't even had the slightest thought of it, probably, literally being the, well, end times? I'm fairly sure that I and a couple of my friends somewhat assumed that it's finally going to be the end of the world and with it will come out either new edition or the game will be killed off. Apparently both were right. Yes, they have released big, expensive kits, but they didn't make them obsolete - they'll all be playable in AoS and the story will continue. Sure, morally dubious move to kill the game, but they carried them over to the next game, so it's not bad.

As to making people go away... nobody is telling them that and everyone understands that it's pretty awful that the game they invested in was changed into something they don't like, but if it was GW's decision to replace WFB there is nothing wrong. The time was no worse than any other to do that if they wanted and no matter when it would happen there still would be people whining, crying and burning their dark elves with gasoline, so acting like this is the worst thing and time they could ever do is just plain silly. If they had killed it two, four, eight years ago/from now it'd still be the same. There always are people unhappy with change. It was GW's decision to not make 9th ed and all you can do is move on. Or, I don't know, sign a petition for them to bring it back. If Microsoft stopped making Windows operating systems there would be unhappy people whining, crying and setting computers on fire, so acting like all the hate is rightly justified is just... silly.

GW sent it off with an epic farewell, deal with it. Yes, they should've been less secretive about their plans and should have announced that there will be no 9th ed as the world is about to end and there will be new game, that'd give people time to get over it, but I am not trying to justify GW's decisions here, it doesn't matter what I think about it, only thing that matters is that it happened, so one can either cry like a One Direction fan or get over it and play AoS or move over to another game. Or wait and see if they bring 9th ed after some time. If you're unhappy then sure, you are allowed to voice it, you have the right, but if you deliberately go to people's threads where they talk about how they enjoy the game and do everything to ruin it for them then you're just a simple douche who tries to bring others down to his level of misery rather than let them be happy. And that's what, among others, OP seems to be against. Unnecessary, poisonous negativity where others want to escape from it.

P.s. - I disagree about running WFB alongside with AoS. That's a change that had to be drastic. "Why play AoS if I can play WFB?" would be the case. Now you are forced to either stay behind in 8th, move over to other games or get on with AoS. Letting people ignore AoS in favour of older product would be even worse.

 Klerych wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If GW didn't want to piss off customers they shouldn't have killed WHFB and immediately replaced it with AoS. If they'd killed WHFB a couple of years ago and then released AoS, they would have gotten a lot less hate, likewise if they'd kept WHFB running for a couple of years alongside AoS, they'd have gotten a lot less hate.

GW did it practically the worst possible way, they ran a campaign called "The End Times" with lots of new expensive products but didn't actually tell anyone "This is it", then they left customers hanging for 6 months, letting the customer base live off nothing but rumours, then with almost no warning released their new game that replaced WHFB but was nothing like WHFB and which was plainly obvious that a lot of the old customers would not like.

I will say I also don't really understand why people feel the need to address the disgruntled WHFB players by telling them "it's only a game" or "it's for the best" or "well WHFB wasn't selling" or "you are playing it wrong" or write blogs about why we shouldn't be unhappy. Do you honestly think telling people "At the end of the day this is just a game – and if you don’t like it then don’t play it – you will be missed – but I can understand – all I (and the people that enjoy AOS) are asking is that you let us get on with it." is actually going to reduce the amount of volume of the complaints? Come on, don't be silly, if you want someone to go away you don't just jab them with a stick and tell them to go away.

If you're unhappy with the level of complaints, go tell GW about it, they're the morons who are responsible for it, except good luck getting them to listen to you.

So you're trying to tell me that when you saw the beginning of that huge campaign called End Times you haven't even had the slightest thought of it, probably, literally being the, well, end times? I'm fairly sure that I and a couple of my friends somewhat assumed that it's finally going to be the end of the world and with it will come out either new edition or the game will be killed off. Apparently both were right. Yes, they have released big, expensive kits, but they didn't make them obsolete - they'll all be playable in AoS and the story will continue. Sure, morally dubious move to kill the game, but they carried them over to the next game, so it's not bad.

Honestly, I didn't consider a campaign called the end times was actually heralding the end of WHFB until part way in to the series when the stories started to look like they were genuinely killing it. Having a name like "The End Times" isn't really enough to assume they are killing it, especially from a company who doesn't like advancing their storylines.

Either way it was a stupid move not to tell people what is going on and serves only to piss of customers.

"They didn't make them obsolete", yeah, assuming you actually want to play AoS, but you'd have to be incredibly naive to not realise a large portion of WHFB players would not like AoS.

As to making people go away... nobody is telling them that

Except that is what people are saying, maybe not you personally, the last line of that blog is basically saying that.

The time was no worse than any other to do that if they wanted and no matter when it would happen there still would be people whining, crying and burning their dark elves with gasoline, so acting like this is the worst thing and time they could ever do is just plain silly.

It's not silly at all. If AoS came along as its own standalone game rather than as a replacement for WHFB then AoS wouldn't have been received with such hatred.

If they'd just killed WHFB a couple of years ago or left it running for a couple more years, then AoS would have been judged as a game in its own right and people who didn't like it would (mostly) just ignore it. Yes, of course there'd still be hate poured on GW for killing WHFB, but that hate would not (or far less) be poured on AoS specifically.

It's naive to not think that a large portion of the hate on AoS comes from the killing of WHFB rather than just because of AoS in and of itself (though personally I would have thought it was a gak game either way).

P.s. - I disagree about running WFB alongside with AoS. That's a change that had to be drastic. "Why play AoS if I can play WFB?" would be the case. Now you are forced to either stay behind in 8th, move over to other games or get on with AoS. Letting people ignore AoS in favour of older product would be even worse.

And I disagree with you. AoS is free, so if people wanted to play it they would have played it either way and if people didn't want to play it they wouldn't have played it either way.

I don't see how letting people ignore AoS in favour of older product wouldn't have been any worse. As it is, AoS is free, if people want to play it with their existing models it costs them exactly zero money to do so.

 bitethythumb wrote:


in your analogy its like a new fan of the same team (that has suddenly changed all its players, its name, its style etc, its more or less a new team now) as your grandpapa "supported" trying to have a discussion on the team with a fresh start and all your grandpapa does is stick her neck in and say "they lost the championship they are a stupid team, I broke my tv because of them, you are stupid for supporting them, I hope they lose again"... maybe your grandpapa just needs to shut up and let the others talk now? time to move on sorta thing..

Why are you offending my family I never said anything about yours. they lost because of a coin flip, the team was great, one of the best Poland ever had and a lot of people from it went on to be the part of the so calld golden team. And there is no constructive talk about AoS. What most people playing AoS say is lies.

I'm sorry, I don't want to talk bad about your grandfather, but if he did something like that just because his favourite dozen grownup men kicking a ball on grassy field lost due to a coin flip, then it doesn't serve well as an example, it just speaks bad about him.

feth your sorry. I have seen what British do every time they come to Cracow or when they teams lose a game outside of UK. My grand dad got pissed, because they got cheated off a win, but he destroyed his TV. You destroy other people stuff.

Why are you offending my family I never said anything about yours. they lost because of a coin flip, the team was great, one of the best Poland ever had and a lot of people from it went on to be the part of the so calld golden team.

when did I offend your family? :/, if you felt in any way offended I apologise but I do feel as thought I said NOTHING to offend you in any way, just pointed out an opinion on the situation you presented and altered it because it was not correct with AoS scenario, your granpapa was angry because his team lost, does not mean he should then argue and shout at others who were not angry at the team... people get angry, they also move on.

And there is no constructive talk about AoS. What most people playing AoS say is lies. "

oooookay...

feth your sorry. I have seen what British do every time they come to Cracow or when they teams lose a game outside of UK. My grand dad got pissed, because they got cheated off a win, but he destroyed his TV. You destroy other people stuff.

why are you being racist?

Yeah, i gotta say that comment about british people was out of line. Many many countries riot and break things over sports events. He wasnt directly talking bad about your grandfather, just pointing out that it may not have been the best course of action to destroy his own television for no good reason.

In any case, nobody likes racist comments and i believe you should retract that immediately or explain how it somehow wasnt discriminatory towards a certain ethnic group of people. You very much overreacted to what he was saying. He apologized before he said anything that could be even remotely offensive. I believe you should apologize to him publicly on this thread. If you haven't noticed, most of the people on this forum are from the UK.

Well this discussion is not only duplicative of the ongoing opinion thread about opinions on AoS, it's also been completely derailed.