Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

None of the above. A protective dog is the best security system.

My lab hound mix has ears like a bat, a nose of a hound, and will absolutely rip the fething face off of anything that tries to get to me, my girl, or my kid unless if i give her the cease and desist command (in deutch! ).

46 pounds of mother fething fury ; she's fought off bull mastiffs four times her size before that charged our kid in a park.

She barks if a mouse farts anywhere on the property and patrols the house all night long. Her bark too, is deep and one of the more menacing barks i've ever heard for a medium dog - its that kind of snarling "oh please, just let me at 'em" kinda snapping snarling bark. She's also pretty much silent even at a full run because we keep her nails clipped.


Best part ? She absolutely adores the three of us, and our best friends that we've acclimated her to.



Back the dog up with a Camera System (not so much for deterrence, but evidenciary value), an alarm system, and a firearm in the hands of a well trained and disciplined user, and yeah, you've got yourself some secure ass premises.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Haight wrote:
None of the above. A protective dog is the best security system.

My lab hound mix has ears like a bat, a nose of a hound, and will absolutely rip the fething face off of anything that tries to get to me, my girl, or my kid unless if i give her the cease and desist command (in deutch! ).

Is your dog Schutzhund trained? We had a rescue dog who was Schutzhund trained, but for some reason, he had been trained with slightly different words, such as something that sounded like "pock 'em" for bite. He had also been trained to poop in bushes, probably so his previous owners would not have to clean it up.

We've found it pretty useful to train our current dog that way, although he needs a lot more calming down and socialization before we teach him the more aggressive commands. He is really, really fond of "such", but surprisingly bad at it.

No, not Schutzhund trained. Just trained by a VERY good trainer. We chose German because i know a smidgen of it, and the commands are easily teachable to family members / friends, but when an intruder is under duress, he's not likely to revert to Deutch when trying to get a dog to back off.

 Chongara wrote:
Given the rate of burglary is pretty low, even lower those that would happen when the owners are home, lower still those that would happen in the kind areas that people who can afford to support an internet-and-miniatures habit would live I'm just not worried about it. It doesn't register on my list of threats.

That said an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Sturdy locks and a safe neighborhood are the way to go, though I probably couldn't be bothered with the former in the latter. At any rate I'm not particularly interested in violence, even less so using it to escalate it with an intruder who more than likely just wants to make off with my TV. The TV covered by my homeowners/renters insurance.

Like the Trenched-coated child abductor at the playground, pill-tampering factory worker, and devious person slipping razor blades into Halloween candy the spontaneous murder/rapist who kicks in the door of your suburban home is far more common in fiction than reality. I don't really have a plan for defending myself from escaped zoo animals either, but hey maybe that'll bite me in the ass someday.

And yet things like the Petit family murders happen.

You are correct it's rare. But it does happen. I want to take "slim and rare" down to as close as "non-existant" as i possibly can for myself and family.

If interested. It's a horrific story, but this is a famous case in New England in a very affluent, low crime community. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders

Also more recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Savopoulos_family_massacre


If you cared to read either or both (the Cheshire one in particular is just god awful due to the level of detail we actually know), .... yeah. No. Both I and my dog will be assuming room temperature before anyone gets that far with my family. I'll gladly be in jail for filling a couple of donkey-caves full of extra orifices before they do that my girl and kiddo.

I do hope it never comes to that, but I have a weapon for home defense, and a mean(ish) dog for companionship and home defense. Meanwhile we make the home and grounds as unappealing a break-in target as humanly possible in comparison to the neighbors.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Haight wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
Given the rate of burglary is pretty low, even lower those that would happen when the owners are home, lower still those that would happen in the kind areas that people who can afford to support an internet-and-miniatures habit would live I'm just not worried about it. It doesn't register on my list of threats.

That said an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Sturdy locks and a safe neighborhood are the way to go, though I probably couldn't be bothered with the former in the latter. At any rate I'm not particularly interested in violence, even less so using it to escalate it with an intruder who more than likely just wants to make off with my TV. The TV covered by my homeowners/renters insurance.

Like the Trenched-coated child abductor at the playground, pill-tampering factory worker, and devious person slipping razor blades into Halloween candy the spontaneous murder/rapist who kicks in the door of your suburban home is far more common in fiction than reality. I don't really have a plan for defending myself from escaped zoo animals either, but hey maybe that'll bite me in the ass someday.

And yet things like the Petit family murders happen.

You are correct it's rare. But it does happen. I want to take "slim and rare" down to as close as "non-existant" as i possibly can for myself and family.

If interested. It's a horrific story, but this is a famous case in New England in a very affluent, low crime community. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders

The chances of death due to accidents with guns being stored in such a way that they are available for "home defence" than are far higher killed in burglarys. Your far more likely to accidentally shoot a relative than a burgler. I would NEVER get one of my guns out to "defend" my home.

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

"A study of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings..."

As for alarms, they are sod all use. People don't do anything about them and burglars know this. They put the pillow over their head and mumble about "who's alarm is that". Too many false alarms.

Yup accidents can happen. They are much less likely if you're not an idiot, which we are not. Suffice to say that it's nearly impossible for anyone to get and operate my firearms that shouldn't have them (EDIT: if i haven't been a dumbass, which has yet to happen... important caveat i suppose). We also have some other things at play within the fam for avoiding mistaken identity, etc. as failsafes.

Alarms are useless if its just a noise maker: when its connected to a call unit that notifies police. if not deactivated in 45 seconds or after 3 failed tries in less than that, its a bit more useful. The real danger of an alarm is an event happening while its not armed, which is why you take other measures. My alarm i can also arm on various levels while others are not. I.e. - all the bedrooms are on the second floor: we go to bed, and the alarms are armed on the second floor windows, and the first and basement floors. My second floor, non window, alarm is my man-hating aforementioned dog.

But sure, i do agree, accidents can totally happen. I take security very very seriously. Again its all about reducing "slim to rare" to "nearly nonexistent" risk. Security and safety / risk mitigation go hand in hand.

 Chongara wrote:

 Haight wrote:

 Chongara wrote:
Given the rate of burglary is pretty low, even lower those that would happen when the owners are home, lower still those that would happen in the kind areas that people who can afford to support an internet-and-miniatures habit would live I'm just not worried about it. It doesn't register on my list of threats.

That said an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Sturdy locks and a safe neighborhood are the way to go, though I probably couldn't be bothered with the former in the latter. At any rate I'm not particularly interested in violence, even less so using it to escalate it with an intruder who more than likely just wants to make off with my TV. The TV covered by my homeowners/renters insurance.

Like the Trenched-coated child abductor at the playground, pill-tampering factory worker, and devious person slipping razor blades into Halloween candy the spontaneous murder/rapist who kicks in the door of your suburban home is far more common in fiction than reality. I don't really have a plan for defending myself from escaped zoo animals either, but hey maybe that'll bite me in the ass someday.

And yet things like the Petit family murders happen.

Right and a fair number of people make money gambling. Yet somehow sound finical planning includes whole-market index funds, but not scratch tickets and trips to Vegas. Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's prudent, productive or rational to plan for. One only has so much time, mental energy and resources to work with and all of them are better spent on things that aren't remote edge cases.

However much time an energy you spend security and/or weapons to protect your family from The Strangers or those two dudes from the beginning of Se7en, you could probably have better net increase in overall safety and welfare for your family allocating to almost anything else.

We respectfully disagree then. I find your analogy drawn between defense / firearms and retirement planning / gambling silly, but we clearly don't agree with one another on this topic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CptJake wrote:
I think you'll find the best 'system' is actually a 'system of systems' which has deterrent and reaction capabilities and is coupled with a security conscious mindset of the occupants of the residence.

Agreed! That's why i have the alarms, dog, cameras , firearm, etc. AND live in a nice quiet suburban neighborhood on a deadend road. My goal is not to make my house impregnable : it's to make it much more unappealing than other targets.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Haight wrote:
And yet things like the Petit family murders happen.

And meteorites have been known to fall from the sky, punch through cars and hit people, but I'm not building a protective dome over my house.

Building an anti-asteroid dome is in absolutely no way comparable to buying and learning to use a couple of pistols as a part of a home security network.



For all those throwing stones at my notions of security: do whatever you like, i'll secure my homestead how i see fit, thanks.