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I know few, if any, of today's nations still existed during the Reunification Wars, but what regions did each Legion hail from when they were originally created on Terra, and where did they correspond to with regards to current, 21st century nations?

I know the Death Guard were mainly British, as were elements of the Night Lords and Iron Hands. I also know the Thousand Sons were apparently Persian, but that's about the limit of my knowledge.

Also, do the novels ever play up these elements? Do any of the British-sourced legions display recognisably British speech patterns or mannerisms? Do the Thousand Sons look Persian in their descriptions?

I know the culture and recruitment of most Legions were later vastly reshaped by their Primarchs, so I'm mainly asking about the Legions prior to being reunited with their progenitors, or notable Terran-born remnants in the later novels.

Thousand sons were more egyptian?

Dark Angels first company were native american. Quite clearly seen in old fluff.

Salamanders were Africans I guess.

I guess the blood angels were germanic, seeing how they are portraied as blonde.

The original names of the space wolves, such as Bjørn the fellhanded, means they probably came from scandinavia or Iceland.

The white scars seems to have been mongol or chinese in culture. One of the most loyalist chapters as well, considering jagathai didnt have any "specially close" relationship to the emperor like half of other primarchs. Perhaps it was because many of their numbers came from so close to the Himalayas (imperial palace)?

Terra of M30 looks nothing like Terra of today, considering that all of the oceans had dried up, all of the forests had been cut down, and huge sections had once been cities, rendered into ruins by the various wars during the Age of Strife and such.

Some SM Chapters draw on historical human cultures, such as the White Scars being based around the Mongols, the Space Wolves based on Norse Vikings, the Dark Angels were originally Native American in aspect, and the Ultramarines are Greco-Roman, to name a few... though none of these cultures actually existed in M30.

No really asking for guesses, but actual references in the fluff.

The White Scars are mainly Mongol because Jaghatai Khan's homeworld is a stand-in for Mongolia, and he's a stand-in for Ghengis Khan. That's obvious, but it's a meta observation. It doesn't, however, mean the original White Scars in the storyline came from Central Asia.

If fact, after Googling it, it seems they came from virtually every geographic and racial background on Earth, so were quite cosmopolitan before Jaghatai turned them into the psuedo-Mongols.

Also, explaining that cultures change over time is not helpful either. I know this, and everyone else does. But that doesn't mean the story reflects this. We're dealing with a story that models Human spaceships on European Gothic Cathedrals...

Only story-based answers please. Not guesses or extrapolations. I wouldn't be asking in the fluff section if I wanted those, as again, most are obvious.

I don't believe that information exists. Since Terra is one giant landmass, there's no "Asia" or "North America", there's just regions that are higher/lower than others, with no water separating them.

Merir Astern of the Dark Angels came from the Sibran Region as a child, which could be construed as a mangled version of Siberia, but I believe at one point he mentions his people having Knights, which isn't something associated with that region particularly. I don't think they're American.

Probably not, but given the events of the timeline from the true modern age to the Unification Wars and then the Great Crusade, it's possible that there were cultural shifts as societies fell, rose, fell again and were once more reborn.

For all we know, the remains of the USA were populated entirely by the descendants of Australian weather forecasters and snake-wranglers who intermarried with the offspring of Canadian Mounties and Tennessee hillbillies, fabricating an agrarian society that specialized in the cultivation of dangerous animals and high-potency alcohol.

Ok, so after lots of scouring the wiki, it seems I have some answers of where their initial recuritment came from;

Loyalists

Ultramarines: Global recruitment
White Scars: Global recruitment
Imperial Fists: Global recruitment
Iron Hands: Widespread recruitment - though substantially British
Raven Guard: South-East Asia - The Xeric Tribes of the Asiatic Dustfields, bordering the larger Yndonesia - theories state likely Indochina
Salamanders: Purposely hidden
Space Wolves: Purposely hidden
Dark Angels: Lost to history
Blood Angels: Not mentioned

Traitors

Night Lords: Global recruitment - mainly from prisons, though with a large British contingent
World Eaters: Widepread recruitment - mainly those screened for heightened aggression
Sons of Horus: Widespread recruitment - early, conquered enemies - theories state this was mainly in and around the Indian Subcontinent
Emperor's Children: European region - mainly sons of nobility
Thousand Sons: Middle East region
Death Guard: Great Britain
Iron Warriors: Sek-Amrak - theories state roughly Persia
Alpha Legion: Purposely hidden
Word Bearers: Not mentioned

---

So I guess that leaves the questions;
1) Where were the Blood Angels and Word Bearers recruited from?
2) Are the online theories correct? Do the Sons of Horus, Raven Guard and Iron Warriors come from the Indian, Thai, and Iranian regions, respectively?
3) Do their origins inform their early characters? Are the Death Guard portrayed in any way British? The Thousand Sons Arabic? Does the pre-Primarch fluff characterise them recognisably as such? (we all know GW loves its stereotypes!)

It was also mentioned that the Space Wolves, Salamanders and Alpha Legion were created as part of the same program, with their origins purposely obscured as part of the process, which is pretty interesting.

Also, recruiting Legions mainly from prisons, defeated enemies, and those with anger issues? Who would have thought that would have eventually led to problems?

The BA were a mish mash of Italian and middle east or North africa if i remember right. So maybe somewhere around the Malta area.

All I have is something I read on the Internet but I haven't seen it mentioned yet. That is that a lot of the Imperial Fists characters have Hispanic surnames alluding to origins in Spain or Latin America.

Keep in mind, that most such elements are meta-commentary on cultures, since Space Marines did not start get recruited from anywhere until some 28,000 years in our future. The cultures we know on Earth today will not exist even a thousand years from now, let alone twenty thousand or more. Culture is a constantly-evolving, constantly-changing thing. Add into that a whole bunch of apocalyptic events, and the culture of humanity on Terra in M40 will be as alien to us as the H'rud.

 Psienesis wrote:
Keep in mind, that most such elements are meta-commentary on cultures, since Space Marines did not start get recruited from anywhere until some 28,000 years in our future. The cultures we know on Earth today will not exist even a thousand years from now, let alone twenty thousand or more. Culture is a constantly-evolving, constantly-changing thing. Add into that a whole bunch of apocalyptic events, and the culture of humanity on Terra in M40 will be as alien to us as the H'rud.

We're aware of this.

The question was not "what will Earth's cultures look like in 38,000 years". It was "did a games company in Nottingham ascribe contemporary national stereotypes to their fiction characters, and if so, do they correspond to where they came from?"

Hierophant and Psiensis basically answered the question. The Legions originated from various cultures on Terra, but they aren't actually "3rd century BC Greeks" or "9-10th century Vikings", rather they are superficially similar to some and/or heavily influenced.

 triplegrim wrote:


Dark Angels first company were native american. Quite clearly seen in old fluff.

Retconned, afaik. Sadly. We still have Rainbow Warriors though!

 Psienesis wrote:
Probably not, but given the events of the timeline from the true modern age to the Unification Wars and then the Great Crusade, it's possible that there were cultural shifts as societies fell, rose, fell again and were once more reborn.

For all we know, the remains of the USA were populated entirely by the descendants of Australian weather forecasters and snake-wranglers who intermarried with the offspring of Canadian Mounties and Tennessee hillbillies, fabricating an agrarian society that specialized in the cultivation of dangerous animals and high-potency alcohol.

Have an exalt or two.

Hierophant wrote:

Also, recruiting Legions mainly from prisons, defeated enemies, and those with anger issues? Who would have thought that would have eventually led to problems?

Tbh, if they'd recruited from current US prisons they'd be the Rock Legion, with 420 chapters, with Blazemaster Konrad Lion as their Primarch.

Blood Angels- Northern Italians, Milan/Venice

Ultramarines- Italy as well

Death Guard- Either Britain or Albania

Night Lords- Honestly I don't know. They were drawn from criminals across Terra, but IIRC they had a couple distinctly slavic sounding names. So maybe something out of the Eastern Europe?

Dark Angels- Unsure. Caliban however definitely has a real English/French vibe going on with Hebrew names tossed in. Antioch in space maybe?

Thousand Sons- Persian.

White Scars- Probably Mongolian, although there's a slew of central Asia nations they could have been sourced from. Gotta love stereotypes.

Imperial Fists- Germany or some former element of it such as Prussia. But with names like Sigismund you are about as German as it gets. Plus they even wear the colors of the Holy Roman Empire lol. The only thing they lack is fabulous whiskers.

Salamanders- Culturally with the whole promethean cult they seem to be Greek. Considering the gene-seed also makes everybody look like they're wearing blackface, they didn't start out black necessarily to reach "super black" levels of skin pigmentation.

The FW HH books are good for this. Each Legion originally grew from a certain region of Terra, and later this combined with their Primarch's homeworld.

As for Earth cultures:

-Dark Angels: Unknown as of this point

-Emperor's Children: European noble houses

-Iron Warriors: Sek-Amrak. I'm not sure what this is meant to be IRL.

-White Scars: Pretty obvious

-Space Wolves: even more obvious

-Imperial Fists: recruited all over Terra so did not have a definitive culture

-Night Lords: Techno-Barbarian Prisoners from the Unification Wars

-Blood Angels: Unknown

-Iron Hands: Northern/Western Albia (Britain/Western Europe)

-World Eaters: Especially aggressive Asian city-states

-Ultramarines: All over the place, like the Imperial Fists. Caucasus, Sub-Equator South America/Africa, and Middle East are cited specifically.

-Death Guard: Eastern Albia (Eastern Europe/Balkans)

-Thousand Sons: Achaemenid Empire (Persian-Egyptian)

-Luna Wolves: 'hunter clans' of both the Jutrigan Bowl and the Samsatian sub-plate slum. No idea where this is meant to be IRL

-Word Bearers: Middle East/Anatolia

-Salamanders: Unknown

-Raven Guard: Central/Southeast Asia

-Alpha Legion: Unknown (Obviously).

Actually, the White Scars are specifically mentioned as being the most cosmopolitan of all the Legions, recruiting from every colour, race and nation.

India is mentioned for the Sons of Horus, as "Sub-Plate" could be a byword for Subcontinent, and Samsation could be a reference to Samsara, a Hindu concept. Also, as we're dealing in contemporary stereotypes projected into the future, India is notable for its slums (Slumdog Millionaire being one notable example)

 Harriticus wrote:


-Luna Wolves: 'hunter clans' of both the Jutrigan Bowl and the Samsatian sub-plate slum. No idea where this is meant to be IRL\

Probably means that they come from a region that is covered in ocean right now. (for instance, a trench in what used to be the Pacific Ocean)

Could Sek-Amrak be South America?

Just going to quote this from the B&C:

Nehekhare, on 06 Jul 2014 - 8:14 PM, said:

Sek, or Sehk is a village in Iran, while Amrak was a 6th century turkish Khan, so the Auro plateau should cover what was once called the Seleukid Empire, one of the Diadochi (heirs to Alexander the Great) which fits the IW hellenist (greek-persian) cultural background (cf. "Seleucid Thorakite" Olympian Imperial Guard, or "Stor-Bezashk", the IW and also late Persian siege artillery and last but not least Alexanders mother, like Perturabo's mother planet, was called "Olympias").


Anybody got a theory why it's called the "auro" (aurum = gold) plateau? iron and gold are the colors of the IVth.

Harriticus' post nailed it. The FW HH series has this information for pretty much every legion featured so far (at least all the ones I read) along with pretty much any other detail you could want.

Blood Angels should definitely be from Transylvania though

Is there anywhere in the HH novels that refers to the Space Wolves having Nordic culture before Leman Russ was discovered and they inherited Fenris?

 Gogsnik wrote:
Just going to quote this from the B&C:

Nehekhare, on 06 Jul 2014 - 8:14 PM, said:

Sek, or Sehk is a village in Iran, while Amrak was a 6th century turkish Khan, so the Auro plateau should cover what was once called the Seleukid Empire

Ah, right. Pretty much settles that. I was just remembering Moorcock's History of the Runestaff story with post-apocalyptic place names like Granbretan (Great Britain) and the like. The American continent was a far-off, almost mythic place called "Amerehk." Wouldn't have been the first time Mike had inspired the lads at GW of yore.

I don't know if anyone mentioned this but the iron warriors pretty early on remind me of Greco Romans. There primarch inacted decimation on his legion for failure. There old home planet has resemblance to Olympus from Greek mythology.

 triplegrim wrote:
Thousand sons were more egyptian?

Dark Angels first company were native american. Quite clearly seen in old fluff.

Salamanders were Africans I guess.

I guess the blood angels were germanic, seeing how they are portraied as blonde.

The original names of the space wolves, such as Bjørn the fellhanded, means they probably came from scandinavia or Iceland.

The white scars seems to have been mongol or chinese in culture. One of the most loyalist chapters as well, considering jagathai didnt have any "specially close" relationship to the emperor like half of other primarchs. Perhaps it was because many of their numbers came from so close to the Himalayas (imperial palace)?

dark angels native american


but the lion has long blond hair?

LightKing wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:
Thousand sons were more egyptian?

Dark Angels first company were native american. Quite clearly seen in old fluff.

Salamanders were Africans I guess.

I guess the blood angels were germanic, seeing how they are portraied as blonde.

The original names of the space wolves, such as Bjørn the fellhanded, means they probably came from scandinavia or Iceland.

The white scars seems to have been mongol or chinese in culture. One of the most loyalist chapters as well, considering jagathai didnt have any "specially close" relationship to the emperor like half of other primarchs. Perhaps it was because many of their numbers came from so close to the Himalayas (imperial palace)?

dark angels native american


but the lion has long blond hair?

Yeah, Dark Angels aren't really Native American anymore. That has really been phased out, and IIRC, the Native American influence came from a recruiting world after the Heresy.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Blood Angels- Northern Italians, Milan/Venice

Ultramarines- Italy as well

Death Guard- Either Britain or Albania

Night Lords- Honestly I don't know. They were drawn from criminals across Terra, but IIRC they had a couple distinctly slavic sounding names. So maybe something out of the Eastern Europe?

Dark Angels- Unsure. Caliban however definitely has a real English/French vibe going on with Hebrew names tossed in. Antioch in space maybe?

Thousand Sons- Persian.

White Scars- Probably Mongolian, although there's a slew of central Asia nations they could have been sourced from. Gotta love stereotypes.

Imperial Fists- Germany or some former element of it such as Prussia. But with names like Sigismund you are about as German as it gets. Plus they even wear the colors of the Holy Roman Empire lol. The only thing they lack is fabulous whiskers.

Salamanders- Culturally with the whole promethean cult they seem to be Greek. Considering the gene-seed also makes everybody look like they're wearing blackface, they didn't start out black necessarily to reach "super black" levels of skin pigmentation.

Ultramarines - Roman

Death Guard - Balkan

Dark Angels - Native American (Older codex atleast)

Thousand Sons - Egyptian

White Scars - Mongolian

Blood Angels - Germanic

Salamanders - African

Space Wolves - Scandinavian

Imperial Fists - Germanic

Iron Warriors - Greek

Iron Hands - Greek

Emperors Children - N/A

Alpha Legion - N/A

Sons of Horus - N/A

Atleast, thats what I make of it..

 Reality-Torrent wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Blood Angels- Northern Italians, Milan/Venice

Ultramarines- Italy as well

Death Guard- Either Britain or Albania

Night Lords- Honestly I don't know. They were drawn from criminals across Terra, but IIRC they had a couple distinctly slavic sounding names. So maybe something out of the Eastern Europe?

Dark Angels- Unsure. Caliban however definitely has a real English/French vibe going on with Hebrew names tossed in. Antioch in space maybe?

Thousand Sons- Persian.

White Scars- Probably Mongolian, although there's a slew of central Asia nations they could have been sourced from. Gotta love stereotypes.

Imperial Fists- Germany or some former element of it such as Prussia. But with names like Sigismund you are about as German as it gets. Plus they even wear the colors of the Holy Roman Empire lol. The only thing they lack is fabulous whiskers.

Salamanders- Culturally with the whole promethean cult they seem to be Greek. Considering the gene-seed also makes everybody look like they're wearing blackface, they didn't start out black necessarily to reach "super black" levels of skin pigmentation.

Ultramarines - Roman

Death Guard - Balkan

Dark Angels - Native American (Older codex atleast)

Thousand Sons - Egyptian

White Scars - Mongolian

Blood Angels - Germanic

Salamanders - African

Blood Angels are NOT germanic, unless you're really stretching "Northern Italian" to mean "Lombards". Not only do they look like they walked out of romanticized Venetia, have art and armor similar to it, but even have the right names. Salamanders are also not African- they have zero African qualities besides being black, which is really sketchy if you're making that connection purely based off their skin color (which has nothing to do with their skin tone as initiates, they literally could have been albino and nobody would know). Plus the Salamanders have the Promethean Cult, which is Greek.

Finally the Thousand Sons are not Egyptian, and are explicitly stated to be Persian. And the Dark Angels are no longer Native American- no remnant of that fluff remain.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Reality-Torrent wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Blood Angels- Northern Italians, Milan/Venice

Ultramarines- Italy as well

Death Guard- Either Britain or Albania

Night Lords- Honestly I don't know. They were drawn from criminals across Terra, but IIRC they had a couple distinctly slavic sounding names. So maybe something out of the Eastern Europe?

Dark Angels- Unsure. Caliban however definitely has a real English/French vibe going on with Hebrew names tossed in. Antioch in space maybe?

Thousand Sons- Persian.

White Scars- Probably Mongolian, although there's a slew of central Asia nations they could have been sourced from. Gotta love stereotypes.

Imperial Fists- Germany or some former element of it such as Prussia. But with names like Sigismund you are about as German as it gets. Plus they even wear the colors of the Holy Roman Empire lol. The only thing they lack is fabulous whiskers.

Salamanders- Culturally with the whole promethean cult they seem to be Greek. Considering the gene-seed also makes everybody look like they're wearing blackface, they didn't start out black necessarily to reach "super black" levels of skin pigmentation.

Ultramarines - Roman

Death Guard - Balkan

Dark Angels - Native American (Older codex atleast)

Thousand Sons - Egyptian

White Scars - Mongolian

Blood Angels - Germanic

Salamanders - African

Blood Angels are NOT germanic, unless you're really stretching "Northern Italian" to mean "Lombards". Not only do they look like they walked out of romanticized Venetia, have art and armor similar to it, but even have the right names. Salamanders are also not African- they have zero African qualities besides being black, which is really sketchy if you're making that connection purely based off their skin color (which has nothing to do with their skin tone as initiates, they literally could have been albino and nobody would know). Plus the Salamanders have the Promethean Cult, which is Greek.

Finally the Thousand Sons are not Egyptian, and are explicitly stated to be Persian. And the Dark Angels are no longer Native American- no remnant of that fluff remain.

Which makes me think, maybe the Emperors Children might also be Northern Italians? Eutrascans?

My guess is African to spice it up a little. Africans are not only southern africans, and greek culture was mixed with african culture in northern africa, thus I guess african.. And I think I agree with the Blood Angels.

Hierophant wrote:
No really asking for guesses, but actual references in the fluff.

The White Scars are mainly Mongol because Jaghatai Khan's homeworld is a stand-in for Mongolia, and he's a stand-in for Ghengis Khan. That's obvious, but it's a meta observation. It doesn't, however, mean the original White Scars in the storyline came from Central Asia.

If fact, after Googling it, it seems they came from virtually every geographic and racial background on Earth, so were quite cosmopolitan before Jaghatai turned them into the psuedo-Mongols.

Also, explaining that cultures change over time is not helpful either. I know this, and everyone else does. But that doesn't mean the story reflects this. We're dealing with a story that models Human spaceships on European Gothic Cathedrals...

Only story-based answers please. Not guesses or extrapolations. I wouldn't be asking in the fluff section if I wanted those, as again, most are obvious.

All the Primarchs were "born" in a lab in what we know as Mount Everest. The Legions themselves picked up members from planets reunited during the great crusade, there weren't many marines in a legion until their Primarch was found.

Hierophant wrote:
Actually, the White Scars are specifically mentioned as being the most cosmopolitan of all the Legions, recruiting from every colour, race and nation.

India is mentioned for the Sons of Horus, as "Sub-Plate" could be a byword for Subcontinent, and Samsation could be a reference to Samsara, a Hindu concept. Also, as we're dealing in contemporary stereotypes projected into the future, India is notable for its slums (Slumdog Millionaire being one notable example)

Well all of the Legions orginally consisted of people from all over Terra. At the point of the legions being reunited with their Primarch that did change, atleast for the White Scars as mentioned inte HH books there were fewer and fewer Terrans left and more and more people from the Primarchs home world. Which were "mongolian".