Jinking

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**ViPER**

I know you must Jink when declared the target of a shooting attack and must declare it before to hit rolls are made. But if am being shot at by a unit with multiple weapon profiles do I have the opportunity to jink between those or do I only have one opportunity per unit to declare the jink?

Thanks

**Happyjew**

You are only targeted once.

**ViPER**

Thanks for the quick response friend!

**Bassline**

Though if your oppoent says he is shooting you with his bolters asks if you want to jinx you say no so they decide to also shoot their meltagun they should let you jinx.

Because if not you can make them not shoot their meltagun as they have to declare which weapons are going at which target before any dice are rolled (People forget this on super heavies and say one weapon will fire at one target roll then next weapon and roll etc. All targets are declared first and with what weapon)

**Wallur**

The Shooting Sequence wrote:
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do so this turn.
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.
3. Select a Weapon. Select a weapon the firing unit is equipped with. All models equipped with a weapon with the same name can now shoot that weapon at the
target. Every model that wishes to shoot must be within range of at least one visible model in the target unit. Models that cannot see the target, or are not in range, cannot shoot.
4. Roll To Hit. Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A model’s Ballistic Skill determines what it must roll in order to hit the target.
5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target. The result needed is determined by comparing the Strength of the firing weapon with the majority Toughness of the target unit.
6. Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties. Any Wounds caused by the firing unit must now be allocated, one at a time, to the closest model in the target unit. A model with a Wound allocated to it can take a saving throw (if it has one) to avoid being wounded. If a model is reduced to 0 Wounds, it is removed as a casualty. Wounds are then allocated to the next closest model. Continue to allocate Wounds and take saving throws until all Wounds have been resolved.
7. Select Another Weapon. After resolving all shots from the currently selected weapon, if the firing unit is equipped with differently named weapons that have yet to fire, select another weapon and repeat steps 3 to 6.

Step 1, Step 2, here you declare If you jink, before he even decides which weapon... so no.Bassline, he can decide whether or not to fire the melta. Selecting a weapon is Step 3, and Step 7.

**Toniork**

Wallur wrote:
The Shooting Sequence wrote:
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do so this turn.
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.
3. Select a Weapon. Select a weapon the firing unit is equipped with. All models equipped with a weapon with the same name can now shoot that weapon at the
target. Every model that wishes to shoot must be within range of at least one visible model in the target unit. Models that cannot see the target, or are not in range, cannot shoot.
4. Roll To Hit. Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A model’s Ballistic Skill determines what it must roll in order to hit the target.
5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target. The result needed is determined by comparing the Strength of the firing weapon with the majority Toughness of the target unit.
6. Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties. Any Wounds caused by the firing unit must now be allocated, one at a time, to the closest model in the target unit. A model with a Wound allocated to it can take a saving throw (if it has one) to avoid being wounded. If a model is reduced to 0 Wounds, it is removed as a casualty. Wounds are then allocated to the next closest model. Continue to allocate Wounds and take saving throws until all Wounds have been resolved.
7. Select Another Weapon. After resolving all shots from the currently selected weapon, if the firing unit is equipped with differently named weapons that have yet to fire, select another weapon and repeat steps 3 to 6.

Step 1, Step 2, here you declare If you jink, before he even decides which weapon... so no.Bassline, he can decide whether or not to fire the melta. Selecting a weapon is Step 3, and Step 7.

It doesn't say it has to be between steps 2 and 3. It has to be after step 2 and before step 4:

When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a
shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink. The decision must be made before any
To Hit rolls have been made. If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule
gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire
Snap Shots until the end of their next turn.

**jokerkd**

Toniork wrote:
Wallur wrote:
The Shooting Sequence wrote:
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do so this turn.
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.
3. Select a Weapon. Select a weapon the firing unit is equipped with. All models equipped with a weapon with the same name can now shoot that weapon at the
target. Every model that wishes to shoot must be within range of at least one visible model in the target unit. Models that cannot see the target, or are not in range, cannot shoot.
4. Roll To Hit. Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A model’s Ballistic Skill determines what it must roll in order to hit the target.
5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target. The result needed is determined by comparing the Strength of the firing weapon with the majority Toughness of the target unit.
6. Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties. Any Wounds caused by the firing unit must now be allocated, one at a time, to the closest model in the target unit. A model with a Wound allocated to it can take a saving throw (if it has one) to avoid being wounded. If a model is reduced to 0 Wounds, it is removed as a casualty. Wounds are then allocated to the next closest model. Continue to allocate Wounds and take saving throws until all Wounds have been resolved.
7. Select Another Weapon. After resolving all shots from the currently selected weapon, if the firing unit is equipped with differently named weapons that have yet to fire, select another weapon and repeat steps 3 to 6.

Step 1, Step 2, here you declare If you jink, before he even decides which weapon... so no.Bassline, he can decide whether or not to fire the melta. Selecting a weapon is Step 3, and Step 7.

It doesn't say it has to be between steps 2 and 3. It has to be after step 2 and before step 4:

When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a
shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink. The decision must be made before any
To Hit rolls have been made. If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule
gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire
Snap Shots until the end of their next turn.

Which still means that, if he doesn't jink before step 4, he can't then do it at step 7 when the melta is selected

**Toniork**

jokerkd wrote:
Toniork wrote:
Wallur wrote:
The Shooting Sequence wrote:
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot. Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do so this turn.
2. Choose a Target. The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see.
3. Select a Weapon. Select a weapon the firing unit is equipped with. All models equipped with a weapon with the same name can now shoot that weapon at the
target. Every model that wishes to shoot must be within range of at least one visible model in the target unit. Models that cannot see the target, or are not in range, cannot shoot.
4. Roll To Hit. Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A model’s Ballistic Skill determines what it must roll in order to hit the target.
5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target. The result needed is determined by comparing the Strength of the firing weapon with the majority Toughness of the target unit.
6. Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties. Any Wounds caused by the firing unit must now be allocated, one at a time, to the closest model in the target unit. A model with a Wound allocated to it can take a saving throw (if it has one) to avoid being wounded. If a model is reduced to 0 Wounds, it is removed as a casualty. Wounds are then allocated to the next closest model. Continue to allocate Wounds and take saving throws until all Wounds have been resolved.
7. Select Another Weapon. After resolving all shots from the currently selected weapon, if the firing unit is equipped with differently named weapons that have yet to fire, select another weapon and repeat steps 3 to 6.

Step 1, Step 2, here you declare If you jink, before he even decides which weapon... so no.Bassline, he can decide whether or not to fire the melta. Selecting a weapon is Step 3, and Step 7.

It doesn't say it has to be between steps 2 and 3. It has to be after step 2 and before step 4:

When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a
shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink. The decision must be made before any
To Hit rolls have been made. If the unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule
gain a 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but they can only fire
Snap Shots until the end of their next turn.

Which still means that, if he doesn't jink before step 4, he can't then do it at step 7 when the melta is selected

I misread "select a weapon" as "select weapons" or something. Sorry!

**die toten hosen**

choose a target to shoot at, target can declare jink if applicable, it's that simple.

**Wallur**

Step 2: Select a Target.

Step 3/7 is select Weapon, not Target.
So you choose Target only once per firing unit, and that is step 2

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jink wrote:When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack

The Shooting Secuence wrote:2. Choose a Target.2.

What is the confusion here?

**Toniork**

Wallur wrote:
Step 2: Select a Target.

Step 3/7 is select Weapon, not Target.
So you choose Target only once per firing unit, and that is step 2

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jink wrote:When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack

The Shooting Secuence wrote:2. Choose a Target.2.

What is the confusion here?

If you mean my confusion, it was a misread of the rules, for which I apologized. (I guess I should've made it clearer I was agreeing with you!) I'd read it as "select target, choose which weapons, plural, you're gonna use, then roll, resolve, etc, roll next weapon, resolve, etc.". Since the Jink rules say "after target selection, before dice are rolled", I'd mistakenly understood that to mean you (the target unit's owner) should be informed of all the weapons that would be used to attack before deciding whether to Jink or not, since dice haven't been rolled yet.

Of course, that was my mistake: you DON'T decide ALL weapons before rolling.

I'm (no longer) arguing that, I acknowledged it was a mistake on my part.

On the other hand, I'm now thinking it could be argued that maybe the intent (RAI) was to allow you to Jink after weapon selection, before dice being rolled for that weapon. I wouldn't argue that, and that's certainly NOT RAW, but it just occured to me.

**Charistoph**

Toniork wrote:
On the other hand, I'm now thinking it could be argued that maybe the intent (RAI) was to allow you to Jink after weapon selection, before dice being rolled for that weapon. I wouldn't argue that, and that's certainly NOT RAW, but it just occured to me.

To be fair, a lot of the rules changes in 7th Edition seemed to have been made in a vacuum, and the alteration to the Shooting Phase done last of all and not much effort to clean up after them.

For example, in 6th Edition, all weapons of a unit were declared and fired at the same time (aside from Split Fire). So, a target with Jink to expect to be facing all that fire. So, they changed Jink to being an active declaration and proceeded to test from there. They then went in and changed the Shooting Phase, but didn't bother to think about or review how this would affect Jink, Power of the Machine Spirit, Super-Heavy Shooting, Ordnance Weapons, etc., because they sure didn't address it.

**silent_death**

It is a very sound tactic to say you are shooting two different targets that can jink and then only to shoot say a heavy stubber at one.

Now there is something in the rules that you may have missed wallu.
If you read the rules for jinking you choose to jink after step two but before step four. So this means that you must say which target the first weapon is going to fire at.

**Charistoph**

silent_death wrote:
It is a very sound tactic to say you are shooting two different targets that can jink and then only to shoot say a heavy stubber at one.

Now there is something in the rules that you may have missed wallu.
If you read the rules for jinking you choose to jink after step two but before step four. So this means that you must say which target the first weapon is going to fire at.

It depends on how you interpret multiple target rules to work. Currently, the only established mechanic for it is Split Fire. While certain Unit Types and SRs offer something similar, but do not define how they actually interact with the Shooting Phase.

I know some prefer to announce both targets AND weapons for those special cases just to reduce offending their opponent. In those cases, it would make that trick above with the Heavy Stubber almost pointless (depending on the targets).

**Wallur**

silent_death wrote:
It is a very sound tactic to say you are shooting two different targets that can jink and then only to shoot say a heavy stubber at one.

Now there is something in the rules that you may have missed wallu.
If you read the rules for jinking you choose to jink after step two but before step four. So this means that you must say which target the first weapon is going to fire at.

I Agree. Rules are quite confusing with specific situations. Also extra/lacking wording makes everything more confused.
I mean, they were written for normal general situations and forgot to clarify in specific situations (like codex using special rules that were never thought of when writting the BRB)

**Pain4Pleasure**

Now since the raw has been explained.. just talk to your opponent first. My play group has us announce all weapons in a squad or vehicle that we are firing and where. Then asks before rolling if we want to jink. There is no "well darn my bolters didn't do it. Will my grav in the same group? Imma fire it now too!" For us