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What do we know as a fact about him/them?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Alpharius

 DeLong wrote:
What do we know as a fact about him/them?

We know that I am Alpharius

Nothing, they have made sure of that. The most reliable story of Alpharius' finding is this:

-Horus and the Luna Wolves are waging a campaign somewhere in the Segmentum Pacificus
-Pirates suddenly attack the Luna Wolves' fleet
-The Space Marines board the Pirates' ships, only to find them empty
-There is then a distress call from the ship, revealing that the Pirates have infiltrated the Vengeful Spirit
-A contingent of pirates make it to the Command Bridge and face Horus
-Hours easily dispatches all of them except for one, who avoids his fire effortlessly and engages him in close combat
-After a lengthy fight, Horus realises he has found his last brother and takes him under his wing

 natpri771 wrote:
Nothing, they have made sure of that. The most reliable story of Alpharius' finding is this:

-Horus and the Luna Wolves are waging a campaign somewhere in the Segmentum Pacificus
-Pirates suddenly attack the Luna Wolves' fleet
-The Space Marines board the Pirates' ships, only to find them empty
-There is then a distress call from the ship, revealing that the Pirates have infiltrated the Vengeful Spirit
-A contingent of pirates make it to the Command Bridge and face Horus
-Hours easily dispatches all of them except for one, who avoids his fire effortlessly and engages him in close combat
-After a lengthy fight, Horus realises he has found his last brother and takes him under his wing

But as HH: Extermination states, even that is a lie. It goes over 3 or so possible origins for Alpharius but each one is deemed a lie although snippets of truth may be gleamed from each one.

 Harriticus wrote:

 DeLong wrote:
What do we know as a fact about him/them?

We know that I am Alpharius

So is my pet rabbit.

Basically, very little concrete is known at all about the alpha legion, besides the fact that they are a bunch of sneaky gits. Speculation is mostly pointless, as that way lies madness.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 DeLong wrote:
What do we know as a fact about him/them?

We know that I am Alpharius

So is my pet rabbit.

So is OP.

War Kitten wrote:
Basically, very little concrete is known at all about the alpha legion, besides the fact that they are a bunch of sneaky gits. Speculation is mostly pointless, as that way lies madness.

The primarch of the imperial fist dorne seems to think that he killed him.

 King Pariah wrote:

 natpri771 wrote:
Nothing, they have made sure of that. The most reliable story of Alpharius' finding is this:

-Horus and the Luna Wolves are waging a campaign somewhere in the Segmentum Pacificus
-Pirates suddenly attack the Luna Wolves' fleet
-The Space Marines board the Pirates' ships, only to find them empty
-There is then a distress call from the ship, revealing that the Pirates have infiltrated the Vengeful Spirit
-A contingent of pirates make it to the Command Bridge and face Horus
-Hours easily dispatches all of them except for one, who avoids his fire effortlessly and engages him in close combat
-After a lengthy fight, Horus realises he has found his last brother and takes him under his wing

But as HH: Extermination states, even that is a lie. It goes over 3 or so possible origins for Alpharius but each one is deemed a lie although snippets of truth may be gleamed from each one.

But in the HH books Legion, it is established (by Horus himself, no less) that this is the truth.

If you mean what is set in stone canon about this character, then sadly absolutely nothing.

The stance of GW is that all of their books are told by unreliable narrators and may be misinterpreted or straight up propaganda. This is to protect them from the fact that some of their writers seem incapable of reading other source material before launching into their weird fetishistic fanfics.

The primarch of the XX Legion is especially difficult. Current explanations for Alpharius' discovery include that he was a pirate that attacked Horus' flag ship and battled his way to the bridge, that he was sent to the ruins of a civilisation long dead, that he was sent to a technocracy that was invaded by the Slaugth and that their tortures drove him mad, and finally that he was not sent anywhere but was raised in secret by the Emperor himself. (source: The Horus Heresy Book 3: Extermination)

What he did during the crusade and heresy is even harder to pinpoint because he entire Legion answers to the name Alpharius and work to be as indistinguishable from his as possible. His motivations during the Heresy are unclear. The novel Legion hints that he may have believed that he was acting in the best interest of humanity, or he could have done it for some other incomprehensible reason.

After the heresy Roboute Guiliman claims to have killed him in an ambush, but even this is unconfirmed as he was unable to recover the body and it could easily have been Tim, the random Alpha Legionnaire.

All that is what is probably true at the moment. GW can change any of this at any time. Horus Heresy book [insert big number] could detail Alpharius' early years as training with Ra's al Ghul to defeat Magneto and derail all that we thought we knew.

 the Signless wrote:
If you mean what is set in stone canon about this character, then sadly absolutely nothing.

The stance of GW is that all of their books are told by unreliable narrators and may be misinterpreted or straight up propaganda. This is to protect them from the fact that some of their writers seem incapable of reading other source material before launching into their weird fetishistic fanfics.

The primarch of the XX Legion is especially difficult. Current explanations for Alpharius' discovery include that he was a pirate that attacked Horus' flag ship and battled his way to the bridge, that he was sent to the ruins of a civilisation long dead, that he was sent to a technocracy that was invaded by the Slaugth and that their tortures drove him mad, and finally that he was not sent anywhere but was raised in secret by the Emperor himself. (source: The Horus Heresy Book 3: Extermination)

What he did during the crusade and heresy is even harder to pinpoint because he entire Legion answers to the name Alpharius and work to be as indistinguishable from his as possible. His motivations during the Heresy are unclear. The novel Legion hints that he may have believed that he was acting in the best interest of humanity, or he could have done it for some other incomprehensible reason.

After the heresy Roboute Guiliman claims to have killed him in an ambush, but even this is unconfirmed as he was unable to recover the body and it could easily have been Tim, the random Alpha Legionnaire.

All that is what is probably true at the moment. GW can change any of this at any time. Horus Heresy book [insert big number] could detail Alpharius' early years as training with Ra's al Ghul to defeat Magneto and derail all that we thought we knew.

We know his motivations at the start. Defeat the Emperor to kill the Primordial Annihilator. Omegon disagreed.

The UMs and Guilliman never stated they killed Alpharius. It was from a journal found by the Heretical Inquisitor Kravin, in which he found a supposed log from an UM sergeant. The UMs themselves question the validity of the claim. All of it's in the old IE. Also, they killed someone called Alpharius. From other stories we know certain Alpha Legionnaires were capable of masquerading as the Primarchs themselves, even in combat.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 the Signless wrote:
If you mean what is set in stone canon about this character, then sadly absolutely nothing.

The stance of GW is that all of their books are told by unreliable narrators and may be misinterpreted or straight up propaganda. This is to protect them from the fact that some of their writers seem incapable of reading other source material before launching into their weird fetishistic fanfics.

The primarch of the XX Legion is especially difficult. Current explanations for Alpharius' discovery include that he was a pirate that attacked Horus' flag ship and battled his way to the bridge, that he was sent to the ruins of a civilisation long dead, that he was sent to a technocracy that was invaded by the Slaugth and that their tortures drove him mad, and finally that he was not sent anywhere but was raised in secret by the Emperor himself. (source: The Horus Heresy Book 3: Extermination)

What he did during the crusade and heresy is even harder to pinpoint because he entire Legion answers to the name Alpharius and work to be as indistinguishable from his as possible. His motivations during the Heresy are unclear. The novel Legion hints that he may have believed that he was acting in the best interest of humanity, or he could have done it for some other incomprehensible reason.

After the heresy Roboute Guiliman claims to have killed him in an ambush, but even this is unconfirmed as he was unable to recover the body and it could easily have been Tim, the random Alpha Legionnaire.

All that is what is probably true at the moment. GW can change any of this at any time. Horus Heresy book [insert big number] could detail Alpharius' early years as training with Ra's al Ghul to defeat Magneto and derail all that we thought we knew.

We know his motivations at the start. Defeat the Emperor to kill the Primordial Annihilator. Omegon disagreed.


The UMs and Guilliman never stated they killed Alpharius. It was from a journal found by the Heretical Inquisitor Kravin, in which he found a supposed log from an UM sergeant. The UMs themselves question the validity of the claim. All of it's in the old IE. Also, they killed someone called Alpharius. From other stories we know certain Alpha Legionnaires were capable of masquerading as the Primarchs themselves, even in combat.

Hey there I have been seeing you on a lot of my topics these days. glad to see you so active. Thanks everyone for the replies

 DeLong wrote:


Hey there I have been seeing you on a lot of my topics these days. glad to see you so active. Thanks everyone for the replies

No problem

Here's some stuff on Alpharius

And here's on Omegon.

Take it with a pinch of salt, as anything d4chan or Alpha Legion-related.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 DeLong wrote:


Hey there I have been seeing you on a lot of my topics these days. glad to see you so active. Thanks everyone for the replies

No problem

Here's some stuff on Alpharius

And here's on Omegon.

Take it with a pinch of salt, as anything d4chan or Alpha Legion-related.

I already found that stuff it is just weird that all sources seem to state multiple contradictions to each of the other sources. I am just going with that we know nothing really at all like my last topic.

 DeLong wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 DeLong wrote:


Hey there I have been seeing you on a lot of my topics these days. glad to see you so active. Thanks everyone for the replies

No problem

Here's some stuff on Alpharius

And here's on Omegon.

Take it with a pinch of salt, as anything d4chan or Alpha Legion-related.

I already found that stuff it is just weird that all sources seem to state multiple contradictions to each of the other sources. I am just going with that we know nothing really at all like my last topic.

Yeah, that's pretty much true. GW makes AL lore as contradictory as possible so that you can "forge the narrative", or some bs like that. Personally, I'd prefer at least something to be set in stone, aside from the names.

 ChazSexington wrote:


We know his motivations at the start. Defeat the Emperor to kill the Primordial Annihilator. Omegon disagreed.

I don't think we even 'know' that.

Basically what we do know us that Abnett came up with a fairly brilliant idea, never really returned to it, and other writers have turned them into some sort of weird Horus Heresy Era Deus ex Machina/Boogy-Man/Plot Machine.

 Alpharius wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:


We know his motivations at the start. Defeat the Emperor to kill the Primordial Annihilator. Omegon disagreed.

I don't think we even 'know' that.

Basically what we do know us that Abnett came up with a fairly brilliant idea, never really returned to it, and other writers have turned them into some sort of weird Horus Heresy Era Deus ex Machina/Boogy-Man/Plot Machine.

Aye, I might have worded it wrong, put it more eloquently below.

The Hydra is green and full of spoilers from Seventh Serpent, Serpeanth Beneath, Legion.

Point (1) being the sticking point - we don't know what they initially determined or agreed to do, among themselves.

Points (2) and (3) - well, who knows what they ultimately mean, as the BL writers have developed an annoying "JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW WHAT YOU KNEW...WE CHANGED THE GAME!" tendency when it comes to The Legion!

 Alpharius wrote:
Point (1) being the sticking point - we don't know what they initially determined or agreed to do, among themselves.

Points (2) and (3) - well, who knows what they ultimately mean, as the BL writers have developed an annoying "JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW WHAT YOU KNEW...WE CHANGED THE GAME!" tendency when it comes to The Legion!

Point 1) I'll definitely concede. We actually don't know ;p

2 and 3 does show which sides have been picked until we at least know more. As it stands, it does seem kinda clear, well, at least to me;p

Guyz....I am Alpharius.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Point (1) being the sticking point - we don't know what they initially determined or agreed to do, among themselves.

Points (2) and (3) - well, who knows what they ultimately mean, as the BL writers have developed an annoying "JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW WHAT YOU KNEW...WE CHANGED THE GAME!" tendency when it comes to The Legion!

Point 1) I'll definitely concede. We actually don't know ;p

2 and 3 does show which sides have been picked until we at least know more. As it stands, it does seem kinda clear, well, at least to me;p

Until we know point (1) we won't really know who is working FOR and who is working AGAINST...well...anything!

 Alpharius wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Point (1) being the sticking point - we don't know what they initially determined or agreed to do, among themselves.

Points (2) and (3) - well, who knows what they ultimately mean, as the BL writers have developed an annoying "JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW WHAT YOU KNEW...WE CHANGED THE GAME!" tendency when it comes to The Legion!

Point 1) I'll definitely concede. We actually don't know ;p

2 and 3 does show which sides have been picked until we at least know more. As it stands, it does seem kinda clear, well, at least to me;p

Until we know point (1) we won't really know who is working FOR and who is working AGAINST...well...anything!

I am glad we figured out that we know basically nothing, but I was wondering alpharius did you join this chat because it mentions your name? Just asking because you are the first mod I have seen reply in some time.
The real question is will they ever let us know something?

Well...my favorite Legion is probably pretty obvious, right?

I usually check out most ALPHA LEGION and 30K/Horus Heresy themed threads as that's my favorite part of just about any GW game system.

As for will we ever 'know' it all concerning the Legion?

Probably not!

All we know is, he can probably out-smart Creed and Tzeentch. Aren't we all a little Alpharius inside?

 Alpharius wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Point (1) being the sticking point - we don't know what they initially determined or agreed to do, among themselves.

Points (2) and (3) - well, who knows what they ultimately mean, as the BL writers have developed an annoying "JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW WHAT YOU KNEW...WE CHANGED THE GAME!" tendency when it comes to The Legion!

Point 1) I'll definitely concede. We actually don't know ;p

2 and 3 does show which sides have been picked until we at least know more. As it stands, it does seem kinda clear, well, at least to me;p

Until we know point (1) we won't really know who is working FOR and who is working AGAINST...well...anything!

Again, this is assuming Omegon is the Loyalist, and Alpharius the Traitor. Though Deliverance Lost shoots that theory down;p

 dusara217 wrote:

 DeLong wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 DeLong wrote:


Hey there I have been seeing you on a lot of my topics these days. glad to see you so active. Thanks everyone for the replies

No problem

Here's some stuff on Alpharius

And here's on Omegon.

Take it with a pinch of salt, as anything d4chan or Alpha Legion-related.

I already found that stuff it is just weird that all sources seem to state multiple contradictions to each of the other sources. I am just going with that we know nothing really at all like my last topic.

Yeah, that's pretty much true. GW makes AL lore as contradictory as possible so that you can "forge the narrative", or some bs like that. Personally, I'd prefer at least something to be set in stone, aside from the names.

Nah, that would completely ruin the point of the AL. Having the Alpha Legion not be unknowable would be like having the White Scars no longer ride bikes. This complete mysteriousness is the only thing that sets them apart from the RG as the other stealth-based legion. It is what makes the AL fun and unique imo. Of course, it does need good writers to make it work.

Although at this point I really do blame GW for turning them into the Troll Legion - mostly due to the number of trolls topics about the Legion seem to attract!

There have been so (in)famous ones here on Dakka from time to time!

The Primarch for the XX legion was never found.

Horus had an apothecary captain (from outside his own legion) create a series of clones. Whilst lacking some of that special magic that made the Primarchs so incredible these clones were still rather effective.

Some of these Horus clones were implanted in to the other legions as a method of ensuring the warmaster's control.

Alpha Legion, a special ops legion, secretly controlled by Horus, was in particular need of mighty and loyal warriors.

As such a greatest number of the clones were placed in this legion, which gave rise to every marine in the legion claiming Alpharius identity. Aditionally, it is the reason it occasionally seemed like the Primarch of the XX legion was in several places at once.

Okay, obviously I just made that all up.

I was Alpharius once, those were the days....