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Blocks vs skirmish, take your pick... The thing I do not get is why did ye olde players not play KoW before AoS... KoW is clearly better than WHFB so why did they not just play that instead of "jumping ship"

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
As others have said both have free rules and you can use your minis for both, so try it and see which you like.

Both have streamlined rules, but my perception is each has the following strengths:

KOW: super tight ruleset that can be played very competitively. If you enjoy the competitive aspect the most, play this.

AoS: 100% freedom in force selection. Play whatever you want. If you want to build a specific army with a theme and enjoy the narrative aspect of gaming, AoS does it best.

How... in Kings of war, with one simple sentence I can do the same as you claim AOS is best for (there are very few themes you cant do anyway) and that is "lets ignore the lose restrictions eh?"

Kings of war is no more or less narrative than AOS...

can I take 1 unit from each race in KoW and make it into one single faction? AoS allows me to REALLY make thematic armies of ANY kind I want.... for example, I can take a full sylvaneth force (trees) but I want to add more wild life, so I add a chimera, a cockatrice, a couple of lizard (big ones), some rat swarms (garden mice?) and even add spirit hosts from vampire counts (wilderness sprites?) and bamf I got myself a wild army with no humanoids and mostly trees and animals and forest spirits... this allows for greater narrative as people can create what they want to suit the story... or the army they want... another one is taking an all engineering force by taking empire warmachine and using them in a dwarf army (for added warmachiness) :/ a dwarven steam tank is pretty cool and suits them more than empire imo

The decision is simple, less rules or more rules with the option to remove some.

or add them? I do not get this point... I can just as easily add rules into AoS as you can remove them from KoW

for example

units must face the same direction they attack/move/aim, they can turn to face any direction in ANY phase but remove 1" from their movement during their next movement phase

if you attack the sides of any unit you gain +1 to hit roll and +2 if you hit them from the back

there, I just added extra movement rules, facing rules and flanking ... took me 30s to do that :/

Can you take a unit from any faction and play it? Yes by merely saying "lets ignore list requirements for this cool theme." Done. Easy. I was doing it for my Lizardmen until the rules came out yesterday. It also comes with a better ruleset.

you will be ignoring a lot more than list requirements.. for example, the games balance that the "points" make will be broken INSTANTLY

Can you easily add points to AOS? Come on genius

do you have to be rude with your replies? or is that just your personality and yes you can.. its called WOUNDS count, people have been using that for ages now...

add points to AOS for me, I am willing to bet I can remove points, army restrictions or any rule in Kings of war faster than you can do the opposite of what I remove for AOS. This is not a hard concept to grasp. The examples you gave are already present in Kings of war, I could have removed them in less than 30s if I wanted. Much faster than adding those rules yes?

no..

firstly, we were discussing the normal out of the box rules that make the game, AoS is designed to be a narrative SKIRMISH focused game where the freedom of thematic armies is PART OF THE GAMES CONCEPT, KoW is not... you are the one who said the only difference is that "you can remove rules from KoW" BUT that is basically IGNORING KoW rules.. .whats the point of KoW without playing by its rules? and as soon as you remove the rules KoW becomes just as broken and unbalanced as you claim AoS to be and therefore you are saying that you CAN make KoW thematic but you will make it a broken, unbalanced game... well done :/

Secondly, AoS is designed to not have points, points are a KoW thing (and a whfb) and there have been PLENTY of "alternative" points things like using "wounds" (total wounds) that more or less work... (its not as balanced as a GAME DESIGNED FOR POINTS but that is besides the point) so to say "add points" is wrong, tell me if you remove list requirements/points from KoW how do the points work? will they be balanced? I THINK NOT... so as soon as you said "I can remove KoW points/list requirments" you have already made KoW a broken, unbalanced, pointless game that does not work as it is intended... adding points or "wounds" to AoS harms it in EXACTLY the same way(or maybe even makes it more balanced) ... so YES I can add points, its called wound count and took people 1 day to figure out :/

--- seriously why are you so defensive to my comment, you more or less said that "its easier to remove rules to add them" when that is just not the case as in both scenarios (adding points/removing points) makes the games equally broken... you are clearly just biased towards AoS :/






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
What do you want to get out of a game?

AoS is a terribly balanced, bare-bones ruleset with little to no development time. It is aimed at young players / players with little or no tabletop experience and requires you to know your opponent beforehand or, alternatively, carry your entire Warhammer collection around. It's good for quick, fun games on a skirmish level and rocks if you play with friends.

KoW is a well-balanced ruleset that recently got a new edition. It has been extensively playtested and re-balanced according to it. KoW is what WHFB wanted to be, a large scale, competitive fantasy tabletop game that also allows you to use your entire WHFB army collection in games. Games usually tend to take around 1-2 hours.

what an unbiased opinion... hows about

AoS is a narrative, scenario, skirmish based game that focuses on the player interacting with each others and talking out the game as it moves along in a friendly none competitive environment, suitable for all ages, very simplified and easy to learn rules for the benefit of being able to pick up and play the game as quickly as possible and the freedom to create any theme you wish for your army, your imagination being your only obstacle, its good for long term scenario styled games where you create a story instead of enemies

KoW is a rule based, competitive game that focuses on win at all costs army list building, heavily restricted in army creation and limited to "best build" scenarios where the games can last 1-3 hours at a time where most of it is arguing about the angle your troops are facing and limited in thematic creation where your imagination does not matter as much as your calculator skills, its good for a lengthy game that focuses on playing with strangers for the glory of being better than them.

see how I can twist it around?

---

by the way, that is not my opinion on KoW, I am just pointing out that you can make any game "look" bad with the right wording... AoS and KoW are both designed for children, this is a children's hobby... and both are as balanced as intended... if you play the "scenarios" in the books GW provides, games are very balanced.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Yes you can. You can drop all restrictions on army building including points and play what you want using the rest of the rules.

@bitethythumb, yes it's basicaly ignoring KoW rules but balancing AoS with wounds is basicaly ignoring AoS rules. Fail to see the difference tbh.

that is exactly the point :/ there is no difference... the tone of the other users posts make it out to be that "adding" rules is bad but taking them away is somehow "ok" I was simply pointing that doing both makes the game have no difference (in that certain aspect)l... if I have to add rules to enjoy AoS then by taking away rules from KoW to enjoy it makes them "equal"

the user I talked with more or less said that "its better to take away rules" :/ and I am saying "its the same as adding"...

I have also started to look into KoW and in all honesty its not as "awesome" as people make it out to be, the simple "unit" damage alone breaks immersion (apparently units do not get weaker if they take damage and function just as good until they are removed) which is weird, at the same time I do not see a point of painting models individually or even playing with 28mm sized models (which is the KoW standard) surely smaller models would make more sense and having them on one large base is better then individually... now I would be like a lot of users and go into the KoW forums and critique it but that would be counterproductive to the whole hobby.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

sarcastro01 wrote:
But can I field 5 copies of Nagash in KoW like I can in AoS? My super creative narrative depends on it and it' not broken at all!

if you own only 5 nagash models and want to use them I say GO FOR IT... there is a really good scenario for one player you could play in the corner of your club whilst everyone else plays against someone else.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
AoS vs KoW?

Things In common:

They are both games where you spend money on toy soldiers which you have to paint yourself. You find an opponent then move your toy soldiers around a tabletop and roll some dice to decide who's the winner.

You can "Forge a narrative" identically with both. ie. Make up stories for you tabletop battle as you roll dice and push your toy soldiers around.

Differences:

KoW has a more rigid rules structure, but is certainly nothing like WFB used to be in max/min'ing and net lists.

AoS has/will have regular releases if you like to keep updating your army in an attempt to stay up to date / competitive

KoW allows you to use figures from any manufacturer.

AoS denies the existence of figures from any other manufacturer.

KoW is a game based on moving rectangular units of troops around. Such as multi-based (on a diaorama), or like WFB on a movement tray

AoS is about moving individual models around. ie. A skirmish

If you spend an identical amount of money on each, you will get a lot more toy soldiers to paint if you are a KoW player.

Which is best?
Well, having played both, I'd personally recommend choosing the one that most of your mates play.
You might decide otherwise but if you pick a game no-one you know plays, you're in for a dull time.


For me? No-one I know irl would touch AoS as a serious game with a bargepole so they play KoW and love it.

The one about AoS denying the existence of other miniatures is a lie, AoS has nothing to do with GW store rules... Its clear your list is biased and likely anti GW because a lot of the things you associate a lot of negatives with AoS but most are not actually based on AoS rather the company GW.. Like having to update your army to be competitive is irrelevant as AoS has no army structure and is mainly scenario based, no need for competitive lists or spending equal amounts of money on both armies, you would have more to paint but KoW minis look rather bad compared to GW productions... So quality over quantity.

 jonolikespie wrote:
So you're all saying I can bring my KoW models to play AoS at an official GW event in a GW store?

nope... Gw has strict preference on using's its own models, as the leading manufacturers in miniatures and the only company with world wide stores it needs to maintain its upper hand in the market, its very stupid as a business model to let you use models from other competitors... Unless you play at a none gw store tournament in a nine gw store where they so not care... But this has nothing to do with AoS and everything to do with GW

AoS is good, KoW is good, both good for other reasons, both have flaws, have fun, enjoy life, drink rum... Good day.